HOF Candidates

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by irish

I dont think you can put Rose & McGuire in the same category because Rose broke the only rule baseball really cared about, gambling. There are signs in every locker room saying no gambling, Rose knew he shouldnt bet but he did anyway.

Roids werent illegal (in baseball) when the ball were flying out of the park so IMO, McGuire didnt break any baseball rules so to me he could go in.

You certainly make a point. I was one of a few that defended McGwire because he admitted to using Andro, which was a LEGAL substance. Although he has been implicated in using other PED's.
Funny how MLB was not OK with gambling, but OK with players beefing up using substances.

[irish]

Originally Posted by jsarno

You certainly make a point. I was one of a few that defended McGwire because he admitted to using Andro, which was a LEGAL substance. Although he has been implicated in using other PED's.
Funny how MLB was not OK with gambling, but OK with players beefing up using substances.

MLB wasnt ok with gambling because gambling almost brought down the game in 1919. I dont think MLB was ok with players doing it but like another post says, the players union has a say in how things happen.

I do think there is a double standard when it comes to baseball and roids. When a baseball player (especially a high profile one) uses roids its almost a national scandal where the public demands they be banned for like but when an NFL player is caught (I think it was Shawn Merriman but I know it was a charger a few years ago) they get 2 weeks off, are back in time for the playoffs, and there is almost no public outcry. Its like the public expects football players to use and so when they get caught its expected.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by irish

MLB wasnt ok with gambling because gambling almost brought down the game in 1919. I dont think MLB was ok with players doing it but like another post says, the players union has a say in how things happen.

Great point.

I do think there is a double standard when it comes to baseball and roids. When a baseball player (especially a high profile one) uses roids its almost a national scandal where the public demands they be banned for like but when an NFL player is caught (I think it was Shawn Merriman but I know it was a charger a few years ago) they get 2 weeks off, are back in time for the playoffs, and there is almost no public outcry. Its like the public expects football players to use and so when they get caught its expected.

It's not that people expect it in football, it's that if you had to name 1 sport that is sooo far into the PED's, which would it be? Of course it's baseball. Why? Because it's no longer about the 1 or 2 guys or even 4 or 5 guys that get caught like it is in football. It's about the hundreds of guys that have used and have tainted the game over it. If the public sees only one or 2 guys getting busted in football, they are not likely to throw a tantrum. But if you see a list (like that of the failed tests in 2003 that was leaked not too long ago that had 103 or 104 players on it) that speak volumes. When players like Palmiero wave that finger at congress and say "I never took steroids, period" then tests positive, are you expecting america to turn the other cheek? It's because baseball has abused the tolerance level of usage of PEDS while football probably does a better job of hiding it, or not seeing it, therefore people think it's not a problem. I guarentee you if football started seeing 50+ players test positive, there would be an outcry.

[irish]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Great point.



It's not that people expect it in football, it's that if you had to name 1 sport that is sooo far into the PED's, which would it be? Of course it's baseball. Why? Because it's no longer about the 1 or 2 guys or even 4 or 5 guys that get caught like it is in football. It's about the hundreds of guys that have used and have tainted the game over it. If the public sees only one or 2 guys getting busted in football, they are not likely to throw a tantrum. But if you see a list (like that of the failed tests in 2003 that was leaked not too long ago that had 103 or 104 players on it) that speak volumes. When players like Palmiero wave that finger at congress and say "I never took steroids, period" then tests positive, are you expecting america to turn the other cheek? It's because baseball has abused the tolerance level of usage of PEDS while football probably does a better job of hiding it, or not seeing it, therefore people think it's not a problem. I guarentee you if football started seeing 50+ players test positive, there would be an outcry.

I agree that baseball went beyond the public tolerance level but IMO if football did the same (I think they do but hide it better) there would be some yelling but not the outcry we saw with baseball. I think the public's underlying assumption is that football players are juicing so if they get caught its not such a big deal because everyone thinks they are doing it anyway.

I also agree with another poster that a large part of the outcry comes from how baseball is all about numbers and when someone cheated to get those numbers and break long standing records its a big deal. Football isnt as much about collecting numbers and the records arent as big a deal as baseball.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by irish

I agree that baseball went beyond the public tolerance level but IMO if football did the same (I think they do but hide it better) there would be some yelling but not the outcry we saw with baseball. I think the public's underlying assumption is that football players are juicing so if they get caught its not such a big deal because everyone thinks they are doing it anyway.

I also agree with another poster that a large part of the outcry comes from how baseball is all about numbers and when someone cheated to get those numbers and break long standing records its a big deal. Football isnt as much about collecting numbers and the records arent as big a deal as baseball.

There is no doubt that numbers have something to do with it. But I will say this, when the Patriots were trying to go 16-0 (well they did but lost in the super bowl) there were all sorts of outcrys about the "cheatriots" or "shady brady" etc. They cheated and it was national news...a huge scandal...even South Park did an episode on it cause they were going after hallowed ground in that 16-0 season. So I do see how stats can affect it, but I still think that's only a small part. That scenario provides 2 examples, we like our stats, and we don't stand for cheaters. We have no evidence of football players using PEDS and destroying the game from the inside out other than those few that get caught every year. I still think if all of sudden there are 50+ players on PEDS and more rumors about it, America would be PISSED that it's hurting the game.
Keep in mind, baseball hasn't lost a whole lot of revenue due to PEDS issues, in fact they were growing even after these issues if I recall correctly, so it's not like America is actually up in arms about this cause they are still opening their wallets. It's just verbally we are taking a stand to get integrity back into the game, and I'm sure the same would happen to football given it's dominance in popularity.