Kevin and Pat Williams, guilty or not?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Daseal

FRPLG -- That whole knowing what goes into your body spiel doesn't cut it, in my opinion. Here's the problem, anything you take now days is so processed it has 30 different ingredients. As far as I know, the NFL doesn't even have a searchable database including the banned substances and well known products with said substances in them. That would really speed things up.

We're just gonna disagree on this. I believe that people should be rsponsible for themselves. You ingest something then you should know what it is. You eat a tomato you know it's a tomato. You eat a steak you know a cow gave it up for you. You take a little pill with 95 different ingredients then you are rolling the dice. Whose fault is it that you took the supplement? Your own. Whether it was on the label or not doesn't much matter to me in the sense that you should be absolved from the consequences of ingesting a banned substance when you did it unknowingly. It is banned. Ignorance isn't bliss and it isn't an excuse. You drive down the road and the speed limits changes and you get a ticket because you didn't notice it had changed then you got to pay up. I think we just look at things slightly different.

[RedBar]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

You ingest something then you should know what it is. You eat a tomato you know it's a tomato. You eat a steak you know a cow gave it up for you. You take a little pill with 95 different ingredients then you are rolling the dice. Whose fault is it that you took the supplement? Your own. Whether it was on the label or not doesn't much matter to me in the sense that you should be absolved from the consequences of ingesting a banned substance when you did it unknowingly. It is banned. Ignorance isn't bliss and it isn't an excuse. You drive down the road and the speed limits changes and you get a ticket because you didn't notice it had changed then you got to pay up. I think we just look at things slightly different.

FRPLG I think your taking this a bit far. These guys like most other people today do a highly specialized job. They play football at a high level, in doing that they learn a few things about nutrition- that doesn't mean they should be held to the standard of a doctor. They learn about mental toughness and visualizing an outcome- this doesn't mean they are psychics. Even your analogy isn't accurate, it is not akin to not "noticing" the speed limit changed it would be if there were no speed limit posted on the entire stretch of highway. Rules and Laws in any fair society must be posted for all to see. Otherwise we all become paranoid and or litigious, that in my opinion is not the message the NFL should be sending here. Accepting personal responsibility is one very human thing expecting perfection is not.

[roth74va]

Originally Posted by RedBar

FRPLG I think your taking this a bit far. These guys like most other people today do a highly specialized job. They play football at a high level, in doing that they learn a few things about nutrition- that doesn't mean they should be held to the standard of a doctor. They learn about mental toughness and visualizing an outcome- this doesn't mean they are psychics. Even your analogy isn't accurate, it is not akin to not "noticing" the speed limit changed it would be if there were no speed limit posted on the entire stretch of highway. Rules and Laws in any fair society must be posted for all to see. Otherwise we all become paranoid and or litigious, that in my opinion is not the message the NFL should be sending here. Accepting personal responsibility is one very human thing expecting perfection is not.

The article says...The players contested that they took StarCaps, a weight-loss supplement, and that the label didn't say it contained bumetanide. This is true. The NFL admitted it knew StarCaps contained the diuretic, which, in turn, triggered a lawsuit from the Williams boys (no relation). The NFL should have informed the players in the league not to take this substance, according to the two Williamses and their attorney.

I disagree, I think they should be held responsible. I understand that they arent "psychics" or "doctors", but you should still have a clear understanding what you are taking when your job is on the line. These guys make a ton of money, and have immediate access to the best doctors and/or trainers that the clubs can provide. IMO....ignorance doesnt discount their violation of the rules, do your homework....or serve your time.

But....it is kinda sad that the league didnt put out the info beforehand.

[RedBar]

Originally Posted by roth74va

The article says...The players contested that they took StarCaps, a weight-loss supplement, and that the label didn't say it contained bumetanide. This is true. The NFL admitted it knew StarCaps contained the diuretic, which, in turn, triggered a lawsuit from the Williams boys (no relation). The NFL should have informed the players in the league not to take this substance, according to the two Williamses and their attorney.

I disagree, I think they should be held responsible. I understand that they arent "psychics" or "doctors", but you should still have a clear understanding what you are taking when your job is on the line. These guys make a ton of money, and have immediate access to the best doctors and/or trainers that the clubs can provide. IMO....ignorance doesnt discount their violation of the rules, do your homework....or serve your time.

But....it is kinda sad that the league didnt put out the info beforehand.

I really do get the point that they are responsible for what they ingest, but I am not persuaded in this case. Sometimes there are mitigating circumstances. On another note it bothers me when I constantly hear the rationale that these guys make a ton of money... Does your income somehow correlate to your level of accountability when it comes to rules? Should we have more patience with people who are paid less? Maybe Peyton Manning should be held to a higher standard then a free agent punter? These guys don't get paid a lot of money because they moonlight as nutritionist, they exercised prudent care and they were let down on two fronts by the label and the NFL. Money doesn't suddenly give you all the answers and at the same time it shouldn't get you out of every jam. I think on this one the NFL should give it to the free agent punter and punt. And then if he screws it up maybe it won't seem as bad.

[roth74va]

Originally Posted by RedBar

I really do get the point that they are responsible for what they ingest, but I am not persuaded in this case. Sometimes there are mitigating circumstances. On another note it bothers me when I constantly hear the rationale that these guys make a ton of money... Does your income somehow correlate to your level of accountability when it comes to rules? Should we have more patience with people who are paid less? Maybe Peyton Manning should be held to a higher standard then a free agent punter? These guys don't get paid a lot of money because they moonlight as nutritionist, they exercised prudent care and they were let down on two fronts by the label and the NFL. Money doesn't suddenly give you all the answers and at the same time it shouldn't get you out of every jam. I think on this one the NFL should give it to the free agent punter and punt. And then if he screws it up maybe it won't seem as bad.

Not judging on how much money they make, simply saying that it provides the option of the very best in healthcare. Most of us arent around trainers/doctors every single day at work. I do think the NFL could have done a better job of making the information available, but ultimately its the players responsibility.

I understand the other side of the arguement, and I will just agree to disagree at this point.

Hail to the Redskins!