Debunking top 3 myths about the '09 Redskins

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Maybe I'm not following here, but are you talking about starting pass catchers only?

Here's the way the stats line up in the NFC East according to NFL.com:

philly = 6th in the league in passing, 362 completions
dallas = 9th, 328 completions
nyg = 18th, 298 completions
was = 23rd, 318 completions

I guess there are statistical myths, as you've pointed out, but then there's actual results, and our passing game has been downright impotent for years.

I don't think you're following. Paintrain pointed out that these numbers "are the top 6 returning pass catchers (WR, TE, RB) for every team in the NFC East."

Great points, Paintrain. Well done.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I don't think you're following. Paintrain pointed out that these numbers "are the top 6 returning pass catchers (WR, TE, RB) for every team in the NFC East."

Great points, Paintrain. Well done.

Okay, I really hate to piss in everybody's cornflakes this morning, but if our passing game ranks 23rd in the league (not to mention near the very bottom in scoring) despite the fact that our starters are catching more passes, how effective are our starters really?

I know it's been eight long months since the end of the '08 season, and perhaps I'm suffering from amnesia, but I seem to remember that our main problem was scoring, particularly through the air.

I'm sure someone will tell me how I'm wrong ...

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Okay, I really hate to piss in everybody's cornflakes this morning, but if our passing game ranks 23rd in the league (not to mention near the very bottom in scoring) despite the fact that our starters are catching more passes, how effective are our starters really?

I know it's been eight long months since the end of the '08 season, and perhaps I'm suffering from amnesia, but I seem to remember that our main problem was scoring, particularly through the air.

I'm sure someone will tell me how I'm wrong ...

You're not wrong. We need to increase our scoring in general and our scoring in the redzone in particular. With the top 6 returning pass catchers in the NFC East and the second year in this offense, it gives us hope we can do just that.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Okay, I really hate to piss in everybody's cornflakes this morning, but if our passing game ranks 23rd in the league (not to mention near the very bottom in scoring) despite the fact that our starters are catching more passes, how effective are our starters really?

I know it's been eight long months since the end of the '08 season, and perhaps I'm suffering from amnesia, but I seem to remember that our main problem was scoring, particularly through the air.

I'm sure someone will tell me how I'm wrong ...

Our main problem last year was definitely scoring, especially through the air and in the red zone. My point with the returning pass catchers was basically demonstrating continuity. The Cowboys lost their #1 WR. The Giants lost their #1 and #2A WR. The Eagles lost their starting TE (although Celek was as much of a contributor as Smith) and their #3 WR. We're bringing back everyone but our #5 WR in Thrash.

Looking at statistical rankings from last year and projecting that to this year is meaningless because each team (other than the Redskins) in the division has to replace approximately 70 receptions and 900 yards in their passing attack. Every team in the division has question marks at the receiver position and while the Cowboys have R. Williams, the Eagles and Giants are relying upon big contributions from rookie WR and we all know how perilous that can be!

If we get the anticipated improvement of JC along with the development of the 2nd year players then we should have the most dynamic passing game in the division.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Our main problem last year was definitely scoring, especially through the air and in the red zone. My point with the returning pass catchers was basically demonstrating continuity. The Cowboys lost their #1 WR. The Giants lost their #1 and #2A WR. The Eagles lost their starting TE (although Celek was as much of a contributor as Smith) and their #3 WR. We're bringing back everyone but our #5 WR in Thrash.

Looking at statistical rankings from last year and projecting that to this year is meaningless because each team (other than the Redskins) in the division has to replace approximately 70 receptions and 900 yards in their passing attack. Every team in the division has question marks at the receiver position and while the Cowboys have R. Williams, the Eagles and Giants are relying upon big contributions from rookie WR and we all know how perilous that can be!

If we get the anticipated improvement of JC along with the development of the 2nd year players then we should have the most dynamic passing game in the division.

Alright, fair enough. I'm especially skeptical about the Cowboys; Roy Williams still has much to prove. And while the Giants lost Burress and Toomer, they've done a good job at drafting replacements, plus they have a dynamic running game with a great O-line. We'll see what happens with them... As for Philly, they seem to do fine and they NEVER seem to have good receivers.

In a way, I hope we don't have continuity in that we don't want to see the same lack of production with our passing offense. Hopefully, Campbell is the missing cog in the wheel, and things will turn around.

We'll get a taste of where things are in just 20 days with the first preseason game.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Alright, fair enough. I'm especially skeptical about the Cowboys; Roy Williams still has much to prove. And while the Giants lost Burress and Toomer, they've done a good job at drafting replacements, plus they have a dynamic running game with a great O-line. We'll see what happens with them... As for Philly, they seem to do fine and they NEVER seem to have good receivers.

In a way, I hope we don't have continuity in that we don't want to see the same lack of production with our passing offense. Hopefully, Campbell is the missing cog in the wheel, and things will turn around.

We'll get a taste of where things are in just 20 days with the first preseason game.

Your skepticism of our offense is justified IMO bro but don't ignore the positives we have going and the challenges facing our rivals. JC needs better protection and another big playmaker for a target. I'm still nervous about our line but as others have said it's great to hear they're working out together. I tend to think the group knows it was an embarrassment last year, that it failed JC and Buges and the fans. I think Chris and Dock and Randy are probably dead-set on reestablishing the line as an offensive strength and instilling this in the younger guys. As to the new playmaker Devin should be leaps and bounds ahead of where he was last year. We don't hear about this guy missing/skipping work and living stupid. We hear he's taking it very serious, working his ass off and hoping to be a superstar.

I agree the Eagles will be very good because they're always competitive and Dono does have more weapons at his disposal than the previous few years. However I just don't see how anyone can be intimidated by Dallas and NY. Our defense has improved more than either offense...I think it's simple as that. Dallas has big question marks at WR, as does NY. But the bonus is NY also has questions at RB. While Ward was the elder of the group he was also the most consistent. Now it's mostly on Jacobs...a guy almost guaranteed to miss time every year and get nicked up. Do we really think the sub 200 lb Bradshaw can carry maintain the running game? Psshht...please. NY will not be able to pound the ball consistently this year. Count on it. And defensively we hear Boley won't be available for training camp (suspended for first game)...I don't think the Giants off-season or their '09 prospects are anything impressive.

HTTR!!!

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Your skepticism of our offense is justified IMO bro but don't ignore the positives we have going and the challenges facing our rivals. JC needs better protection and another big playmaker for a target. I'm still nervous about our line but as others have said it's great to hear they're working out together. I tend to think the group knows it was an embarrassment last year, that it failed JC and Buges and the fans. I think Chris and Dock and Randy are probably dead-set on reestablishing the line as an offensive strength and instilling this in the younger guys. As to the new playmaker Devin should be leaps and bounds ahead of where he was last year. We don't hear about this guy missing/skipping work and living stupid. We hear he's taking it very serious, working his ass off and hoping to be a superstar.

I agree the Eagles will be very good because they're always competitive and Dono does have more weapons at his disposal than the previous few years. However I just don't see how anyone can be intimidated by Dallas and NY. Our defense has improved more than either offense...I think it's simple as that. Dallas has big question marks at WR, as does NY. But the bonus is NY also has questions at RB. While Ward was the elder of the group he was also the most consistent. Now it's mostly on Jacobs...a guy almost guaranteed to miss time every year and get nicked up. Do we really think the sub 200 lb Bradshaw can carry maintain the running game? Psshht...please. NY will not be able to pound the ball consistently this year. Count on it. And defensively we hear Boley won't be available for training camp (suspended for first game)...I don't think the Giants off-season or their '09 prospects are anything impressive.

HTTR!!!

The Skins don't need to be all-world on offense to be one of the elite teams in the NFL this year. They just need to be 5-8 points better per game. It boils down to 2 things - can Zorn coach and can Campbell play. If the answer to both is yes, then look-out!

We have a pro-bowl receiver, pro-bowl tight-end, pro-bowl running back, pro-bowl full-back and pro-bowl RT. Would it be nice to have a Larry Fitzgerald-like WR as well? Of course, but most teams get by with a lot less. We have plenty of talent to be a 20 point per game team, which would make the Skins a force to be reckoned with, assuming the defense is elite and we can keep injuries to a minimum. It's all on Zorn and Campbell.

The Giants had so many good RBs a couple of years ago that they waived a guy named Ryan Grant (their 5th best RB). They'll plug someone in and have just as potent a 3-headed monster that they had last year. Maybe they aren't as good without Plax, but they'll still score enough to be a contender. Plax left the Steelers and they won the Super Bowl the next year, so let's not pretend he's the Messiah.

TO wanted every pass thrown to him, which gave the rest of the offense fits. Despite his late season meltdowns, Romo is legit, Whitten is still there and Roy Williams is plenty capable. He put up some monster numbers in Detroit, before falling off the radar. I think every team will be in the hunt again this year, but if Zorn and Campbell are the real deal, the Skins could run away with the NFC East. The defense could be one of the best units the Skins have ever had.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

The Skins don't need to be all-world on offense to be one of the elite teams in the NFL this year. They just need to be 5-8 points better per game. It boils down to 2 things - can Zorn coach and can Campbell play. If the answer to both is yes, then look-out!

We have a pro-bowl receiver, pro-bowl tight-end, pro-bowl running back, pro-bowl full-back and pro-bowl RT. Would it be nice to have a Larry Fitzgerald-like WR as well? Of course, but most teams get by with a lot less. We have plenty of talent to be a 20 point per game team, which would make the Skins a force to be reckoned with, assuming the defense is elite and we can keep injuries to a minimum. It's all on Zorn and Campbell.

The Giants had so many good RBs a couple of years ago that they waived a guy named Ryan Grant (their 5th best RB). They'll plug someone in and have just as potent a 3-headed monster that they had last year. Maybe they aren't as good without Plax, but they'll still score enough to be a contender. Plax left the Steelers and they won the Super Bowl the next year, so let's not pretend he's the Messiah.

TO wanted every pass thrown to him, which gave the rest of the offense fits. Despite his late season meltdowns, Romo is legit, Whitten is still there and Roy Williams is plenty capable. He put up some monster numbers in Detroit, before falling off the radar. I think every team will be in the hunt again this year, but if Zorn and Campbell are the real deal, the Skins could run away with the NFC East. The defense could be one of the best units the Skins have ever had.

I like Heyer but you're really putting a lot of faith in him aren't you? I agree about JC and Zorn. I think they'll show they're the real deal this year. If not, we're screwed. But I think they prove they're legit this year. I'm not gonna put a lot of heat on Zorn after his first year as coach. Especially with the limited coaching experience he's had in the NFL. He made some mistakes and I think he's smart enough to know it and make corrections. I think JC and Zorn did pretty well until the line started breaking down. Even Portis has pointed out how the line affected the whole offense in the second half of the season. For a coach with as limited experience as Zorn has, he coached some pretty good wins against some good teams in the first half of the season. If we're gonna give him some blame for the losses, we should give him some credit for the wins. I've had doubts about JC myself, but Cooley stated how JC was under TREMENDOUS pressure the second half of the season and believes Jason is going to have a great year. I'll take his word for it along with my belief that Jason will be a lot more comfortable and more aggressive this year.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Our main problem last year was definitely scoring, especially through the air and in the red zone. My point with the returning pass catchers was basically demonstrating continuity. The Cowboys lost their #1 WR. The Giants lost their #1 and #2A WR. The Eagles lost their starting TE (although Celek was as much of a contributor as Smith) and their #3 WR. We're bringing back everyone but our #5 WR in Thrash.

Looking at statistical rankings from last year and projecting that to this year is meaningless because each team (other than the Redskins) in the division has to replace approximately 70 receptions and 900 yards in their passing attack. Every team in the division has question marks at the receiver position and while the Cowboys have R. Williams, the Eagles and Giants are relying upon big contributions from rookie WR and we all know how perilous that can be!

If we get the anticipated improvement of JC along with the development of the 2nd year players then we should have the most dynamic passing game in the division.

We make a big deal out of continuity, because we don't have it, but other teams add and lose players on offense each and every year and keep humming along. TO dropped more passes than anyone and was more of a disruption to the offense than anything else. Dallas will still have a potent passing attack, the Eagles move the ball up and down the field regardless of whose on the field (Westbrook misses a ton of time each year and they still manage to score points) and the Giants will still run the ball down everyone's throats and Eli will be just good enough to keep defenses honest. The Skins just need to be better, and I think they will. I just don't think the other teams will be dramatically worse.