Second coming of Reggie White?

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Even bigger than letting White slip away was the Skins poor draft record during that era.

In '92, the FO traded the #6 and #28 overall to move up to #4 overall, selecting Desmond Howard. Troy Vincent was there for the taking at #6 and Carl Pickens at #28, both quickly established themselves as Pro Bowlers while Howard was a total bust.

In '94 the FO selected Health Shuler #3 overall, hoping he would develop into our Troy Aikman. Another bust.

In '95, Michael Westbrook was selected #4 overall to be our Michael Irvin, but aside from a single 1000 yard season, he was a chronic underachiever. And BTW, Warren Sapp was available at #4.

Three top five draft busts in 4 years - that's almost hard to do. That said, Reggie White was the greatest D-lineman of all-time IMO, and he would have certainly solidified the Skins D during that era.

agreed. In particular, the year that we passed on Sapp I was up in arms.

I looked for that wash post mag. article online but couldn't find it, but what I remember was it broke down every facet of the Skins fall from grace, including the Monk debacle.

Casserly & Gibbs said that during the glory years, players' agents were always asking them how they could work a deal to play for the skins. The FO thought that free agency would be a boon for them & they would land top talent at the price they wanted to pay. What happened was that players were more about the $ than they realized, playing for the skins wasn't as coveted as the 49ers, and suddenly salaries skyrocketed for players that used to be cheap, namely o-linemen.

As I recall, the theory implied in letting white sign w/GB was that had they signed him AND made some other good moves (they also made bad fa signings at this time such as Tim Mcgee, Al Noga), Pettibon might've kept the job and all those other dominoes wouldn't have fallen. i.e. if white had signed maybe Norv & his poor draft picks + letting Monk go would've never happened.

No doubt though, there were a lot of reasons for the collapse. I'm still bitter toward Norvelle more than anyone else, though I know he was only part of it.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

No doubt though, there were a lot of reasons for the collapse. I'm still bitter toward Norvelle more than anyone else, though I know he was only part of it.

I don't think Norv is a great coach but I think he is ok. I do think his teams were awful more because he just didn't have all that much talent. The poor talent acquisition in the mid 90's killed the team through 2000. Then a whole different kind of poor talent acquisition killed th team through 2004.

[IH8Snyder]

I think that the Skins have forgotten all about the draft and are relying on free agency to bail them out. But look at what SouperMeister said and see if you can really blame them. They have made some poor decisions in the draft with one major exception ORAKPO!!!!

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by IH8Snyder

I think that the Skins have forgotten all about the draft and are relying on free agency to bail them out. But look at what SouperMeister said and see if you can really blame them. They have made some poor decisions in the draft with one major exception ORAKPO!!!!

Welcome to the board. Here is a good post if you want to see a different perspective on our recent drafts:

http://www.thewarpath.net/579525-post109.html

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by IH8Snyder

I think that the Skins have forgotten all about the draft and are relying on free agency to bail them out. But look at what SouperMeister said and see if you can really blame them. They have made some poor decisions in the draft with one major exception ORAKPO!!!!

Welcome.

I actually think the last 2 drafts were solid.

We could eventually have 4 long-term starters from 2008: Thomas, Kelly, Davis, Horton and who knows...Rinehart, Tryon, Moore, Rob Jackson and even Colt Brennan could play into the future. The only BAD pick was the punter, Durant Brooks.

This year, we could have drafted the best player in the entire draft with Orakpo. Kevin Barnes, Eddie Williams and Marko Mitchell will prove to be valuable team members and depth. We did a lot without a lot of picks but more importantly, knew to take Orakpo when he was somehow still available. If we had traded for Sanchez, I would have a much different feeling about the draft, I always thought that would be a bad idea.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I don't think Norv is a great coach but I think he is ok. I do think his teams were awful more because he just didn't have all that much talent. The poor talent acquisition in the mid 90's killed the team through 2000. Then a whole different kind of poor talent acquisition killed th team through 2004.

It's always unfair to single out one man only. In fairness, Norv was there in a difficult time for the organization. JK Cooke was in his last years then passed away & the uncertain ownership of the team led in part to Trent Green leaving.

I'm particularly hard on Norv due to:
1) He was a cowboy coach & he brought in cowpokes, none of which panned out. I always hated the idea of hiring a rival

2) He was part of Art Monk leaving town. After initially declining the skins offer, when Monk's agent came back & said that they would take it, norvelle told mgmt. that the wr spot was set as he'd signed Henry Ellard. Can't argue w/Ellard's production, but if you show a legend the door, you better win (see J. Jones hiring of Jimmy Johnson).

3) He wanted Westbrook in 95 when Sapp was available & the D was in need.

4) He chose G. Frerotte as starter over Shuler. I know Shuler's career snowballed to nothing, but sometimes players careers are derailed by coaching decisions, poor fit for the scheme, etc. I was never convinced that Frerotte really outplayed shuler in their preseason battle in 96. (I realize history is on norv's & Gus' side here)

5) Those were just some dark years. To his credit he beat the cowboys a bit, even sweeping them in their last super bowl year. But his teams seemed to have a knock for losing in creative ways.

[BringBackJoeT]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

agreed. In particular, the year that we passed on Sapp I was up in arms.

I looked for that wash post mag. article online but couldn't find it, but what I remember was it broke down every facet of the Skins fall from grace, including the Monk debacle.

Casserly & Gibbs said that during the glory years, players' agents were always asking them how they could work a deal to play for the skins. The FO thought that free agency would be a boon for them & they would land top talent at the price they wanted to pay. What happened was that players were more about the $ than they realized, playing for the skins wasn't as coveted as the 49ers, and suddenly salaries skyrocketed for players that used to be cheap, namely o-linemen.

As I recall, the theory implied in letting white sign w/GB was that had they signed him AND made some other good moves (they also made bad fa signings at this time such as Tim Mcgee, Al Noga), Pettibon might've kept the job and all those other dominoes wouldn't have fallen. i.e. if white had signed maybe Norv & his poor draft picks + letting Monk go would've never happened.

No doubt though, there were a lot of reasons for the collapse. I'm still bitter toward Norvelle more than anyone else, though I know he was only part of it.

Agree 100%. It's completely unfair to isolate blame on Norv, but I too have reserved the vast majority of my 90s bitterness for him.