Vinny tips his hand on the final 53

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

How can you have a pissing match with yourself??? Very interesting.

I dont think our special teams have been that spectacular in years. I'd rather have a player that can do multiple things for our team. Than a subpar returner who is a excellent special teams tackler. If that is the only reason you want to keep him. You can't even be called a half wit.

If anything Rock is expendable. Thomas, Betts, Moss, etc. can return kicks and play another part on the team. Rock only plays special teams. I never said Mason was the only option. In my eyes. It isn't a question of CP production its about if he gets hurt and Betts comes in an takes over the reigns. Who is going to back him up? If your answer is Rock. Then why couldn't he do it last year. Dude get a clue. Get off Rocks nuts. Because he is a average player at best and is almost 30. I would take Mason, Aldridge & Dorsey over him. Special teams is important. But like someone said. If he is the best player on ST and ST sucks. What does that say? One thing it says is Danny Smith needs to be a better coach and prepare his unit better. Another thing is if Rock is so valuable as a tackler. Why have teams been getting superior filed position on returns for the past few years..??


If you have a player than can return punts and play on offense or defense as aback up or other wise.... Why would you keep a one dimensional subpar player? That stunts yoru chances for having a running back to mold for the future. Again Rock is almost 30..Get a clue. Idiot

It's pretty hard for me to take you seriously when you come at me with sentence fragments.

We're clearly not watching the same team, the Redskins have been one of the better punt and kick coverage teams in recent years. That's directly attributable to guys like Rock, James Thrash, and Khary Campbell.

Your opinion on Rock is so far in the minority that it's not even worth debating anymore. Come back to reality a little bit, study up the numbers some, and maybe we can continue the conversation.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

It's pretty hard for me to take you seriously when you come at me with sentence fragments.

We're clearly not watching the same team, the Redskins have been one of the better punt and kick coverage teams in recent years. That's directly attributable to guys like Rock, James Thrash, and Khary Campbell.

Your opinion on Rock is so far in the minority that it's not even worth debating anymore. Come back to reality a little bit, study up the numbers some, and maybe we can continue the conversation.

Dude get your head out your ass!! Your truly idiotic. Please post the numbers sir. I am by far not the minority. One thing I must say though you are a royal prick. Its good to be a Rock lover. Thats all fine and dandy. But do you want to win games or do you want to obsess over Rock. The whole team comes before any player. Especially if that player is not producing.

One dimensional player that is average. 30 years old. Is not an asset at any other position. Like Devin Thomas, Moss, or Betts (or even Thrash when he was here for that matter).

You would rather keep him over one of 3 RBs that can groomed for the future?

One that couldn't even back up Betts when he went down last year. Some say punt return duties made that impossible. Okay didn't ARE return punts and was the 2nd WR.

Dude please. Are you doing a headstand? Because you are talking out your ass...Or your not as intelligent as you think you are.

Rock will be gone. Get your Kleenex..

Read my comment and then maybe you can have a better understanding than your blind commitment to a player that has reached his ceiling and is kept on the team because he's such a good tackler on special teams. He can be replaced and someone can take his palce. If not Danny Smith needs to re-examine how he coaches. If Rock is his ST super hero..

Debate with yourself dude..

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

Dude get your head out your ass!! Your truly idiotic. Please post the numbers sir. I am by far not the minority. One thing I must say though you are a royal prick. Its good to be a Rock lover. Thats all fine and dandy. But do you want to win games or do you want to obsess over Rock. The whole team comes before any player. Especially if that player is not producing.

One dimensional player that is average. 30 years old. Is not an asset at any other position. Like Devin Thomas, Moss, or Betts (or even Thrash when he was here for that matter).

You would rather keep him over one of 3 RBs that can groomed for the future?

One that couldn't even back up Betts when he went down last year. Some say punt return duties made that impossible. Okay didn't ARE return punts and was the 2nd WR.

Dude please. Are you doing a headstand? Because you are talking out your ass...Or your not as intelligent as you think you are.

Rock will be gone. Get your Kleenex..

Read my comment and then maybe you can have a better understanding than your blind commitment to a player that has reached his ceiling and is kept on the team because he's such a good tackler on special teams. He can be replaced and someone can take his palce. If not Danny Smith needs to re-examine how he coaches. If Rock is his ST super hero..

Debate with yourself dude..

Here are your numbers:

Rock Cartwright, 6th in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2008:

2008 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Rock Cartwright, 6th in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2007:

2007 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Rock Cartwright, 2nd in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2006:

2006 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN


By the way, you don't groom RBs for the future. They either come into the league ready to light it up or they don't (see Forte, Matt; Portis, Clinton for immediate success stories). The only way RBs seemingly bloom late is when they're stuck behind an entrenched star and then something changes (see Turner, Michael behind LDT and Holmes, Priest behind Jamal Lewis).

Marcus Mason is not that talented, plain and simple.

Like I said, learn the game and the numbers, and know what you're talking about, then come back and see me.

[dmvskinzfan08]

[quote=Schneed10;583374]Here are your numbers:

Rock Cartwright, 6th in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2008:

2008 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Rock Cartwright, 6th in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2007:

2007 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Rock Cartwright, 2nd in the NFL in kickoff return yards, 2006:

2006 NFL Player Returning Stats - National Football League - ESPN

The only way RBs seemingly bloom late is when they're stuck behind an entrenched star and then something changes (see Turner, Michael behind LDT and Holmes, Priest behind Jamal Lewis).

Thanks for making my point!!

Okay since you are a great statistician and that's what you base everything on (dork). Post this stat! How many times has he returned one for a TD?

Then come back and talk to yourself.

Is this Rock or Danny Smith? LMAO

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

Okay since you are a great statistician and that's what you base everything on (dork). Post this stat! How many times has he returned one for a TD?

Then come back and talk to yourself.

Is this Rock or Danny Smith? LMAO

While I have no beef in this fight, I will just say that stats are pretty important and a bit hard to argue against.


That being said....when does the season start again?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

Thanks for making my point!!

Okay since you are a great statistician and that's what you base everything on (dork). Post this stat! How many times has he returned one for a TD?

Then come back and talk to yourself.

Is this Rock or Danny Smith? LMAO

So are you dismissing the fact that for the past 3 years he has been in the top 6? and if so, what would you accept from his replacement?

First, you asked Schneed to show you the numbers, then you summarily dismiss quantifiable facts and name call. That's a way to lose arguments. As for the TD number, rather than asking a dismissive question you might have gone and looked yourself, my guess is the stats that Schneed gave you include those numbers. But stats are for dorks, so they don't count, but then you ask for them. strange rebuttal sir, strange rebuttal.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

So are you dismissing the fact that for the past 3 years he has been in the top 6? and if so, what would you accept from his replacement?

First, you asked Schneed to show you the numbers, then you summarily dismiss quantifiable facts and name call. That's a way to lose arguments. As for the TD number, rather than asking a dismissive question you might have gone and looked yourself, my guess is the stats that Schneed gave you include those numbers. But stats are for dorks, so they don't count, but then you ask for them. strange rebuttal sir, strange rebuttal.

No he called me a half-wit while back. Stats are important but not everything. Devin Hester is 28th on that list. Would you rather have him or Rock. Josh Cribbs is under him also..Who would you rather have. Is that so hard to understand. No my point was the one I made above. I am well aware that Rock has only return 1 in his whole career. I was actually be sarcastic. because I knew he would go through the effort to post the stats like an ass. But to make my point again. he came out with the half-wit comment and began to belittle me. Read the previous reply then you willget my point. Stats are important. But NOT EVERYTHING. We had the 4th ranked D in the league last year. But only had 28 sacks. Denver was one of the top offenses in the league. They sucked. So there are other things that factor in beside just the numbers..

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

No he called me a half-wit while back. Stats are important but not everything. Devin Hester is 28th on that list. Would you rather have him or Rock. Josh Cribbs is under him also..Who would you rather have. Is that so hard to understand. No my point was the one I made above. I am well aware that Rock has only return 1 in his whole career. I was actually be sarcastic. because I knew he would go through the effort to post the stats like an ass. But to make my point again. he came out with the half-wit comment and began to belittle me. Read the previous reply then you willget my point. Stats are important. But NOT EVERYTHING. We had the 4th ranked D in the league last year. But only had 28 sacks. Denver was one of the top offenses in the league. They sucked. So there are other things that factor in beside just the numbers..

Well, it's kick returning, not punt returning. And while I'd take Cribbs over pretty much everyone, Hester has never been much of a kick returner. Most of his TD's come against the punt unit.

Rock doesn't return punts. But that doesn't mean he doesn't play on the unit elsewhere. Granted, that one unit does suck, but hard to argue that it's specifically Rock's fault.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

No he called me a half-wit while back. Stats are important but not everything. Devin Hester is 28th on that list. Would you rather have him or Rock. Josh Cribbs is under him also..Who would you rather have. Is that so hard to understand. No my point was the one I made above. I am well aware that Rock has only return 1 in his whole career. I was actually be sarcastic. because I knew he would go through the effort to post the stats like an ass. But to make my point again. he came out with the half-wit comment and began to belittle me. Read the previous reply then you willget my point. Stats are important. But NOT EVERYTHING. We had the 4th ranked D in the league last year. But only had 28 sacks. Denver was one of the top offenses in the league. They sucked. So there are other things that factor in beside just the numbers..

See, I understand that stats aren't everything, but if you exclude stats, what else do you look at when defending/criticizing Cartwright? from what i have read it seems like your biggest beef is only 1 TD in 3 yrs. If thats true, than its a stat, and by all the stats together Cartwright is a top returner. The best no, but proven effective yes.

If you say don't only use stats, then the question is, what else do you want to look at; the pro-RC people point to his locker room presence, his leadership on all phases of STs, except FG.(again as highlighted by coaches and players alike). And his short yardage pounding(yes this is his weakest part). All I see the anti-RC people saying is, we gotta go with someone new. Maybe I've missed the non-stat argument, if so please restate it.

Overall, if the team goes a different way, great I hope it works. If they stay with RC, well then we should have a top 10 return game, albeit unlikely to see it produce that 1 TD you want.

[Miller101]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

Dude get your head out your ass!! Your truly idiotic. Please post the numbers sir. I am by far not the minority.

NFL Stats: by Player Category

Rock was number 6 in yardage last year. And he can tackle!!! I would post a link to it, but you know that.

You can look at other years too. And then tell me who is better than Rock over those years. It won't be Mason or Alridge.