Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Um, huh? I mean, I know you're never wrong, but what are you talking about? I did go back a year. I went back to the start of the Zorn era. Not sure what you're getting at. How are we not suffering the same sort of ineptitude as Oakland when they're outscoring us over that span? Because they've used draft picks on offensive players?

(PS- don't be so arrogant when people disagree with you. It's not necessary).

GM, look in the mirror before you judge me. You made a bad argument.

1) you can't pick and choose a span to fit the argument you want to make. That's called cherry picking. That's all I said. Nothing more, nothing less.

2) you used PF as your only evidence, knowing full well that you weren't giving us the whole story. I know you're better than this, as you post here more than enough to show that you're a bright guy.

I didn't push the argument because I know you won't always have as short a fuse as you do after watching what transpired on Sunday. I certainly don't think any less of you for being pissed off with a bad outcome. I'm pissed off, too. But if you're trying to prove that we've been just as inept as the worst offenses in the league over the past few years, you're not going to have much of an argument.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

GM, look in the mirror before you judge me. You made a bad argument.

1) you can't pick and choose a span to fit the argument you want to make. That's called cherry picking. That's all I said. Nothing more, nothing less.

2) you used PF as your only evidence, knowing full well that you weren't giving us the whole story. I know you're better than this, as you post here more than enough to show that you're a bright guy.

I didn't push the argument because I know you won't always have as short a fuse as you do after watching what transpired on Sunday. I certainly don't think any less of you for being pissed off with a bad outcome. I'm pissed off, too. But if you're trying to prove that we've been just as inept as the worst offenses in the league over the past few years, you're not going to have much of an argument.

I hear you, and I wasn't trying to be judgmental, so sorry if it came off that way. I guess the way I read your post rubbed me the wrong way.

Anyway, overall, is PF not a good a judge of offense? The best offenses in the league are the ones that score the most, right? Scoring is ultimately what wins ball games. As I mentioned, we've certainly been better at amassing yards than the worst teams in the league, but we're right there with them as far as our inability to move the scoreboard.

You're better than anyone on this board at using stats to back up your arguments, so I'm certainly not trying to have it out with you in that regard. Just curious why you think we're not near the bottom of the league offensively at this point.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I hear you, and I wasn't trying to be judgmental, so sorry if it came off that way. I guess the way I read your post rubbed me the wrong way.

Anyway, overall, is PF not a good a judge of offense? The best offenses in the league are the ones that score the most, right? Scoring is ultimately what wins ball games. As I mentioned, we've certainly been better at amassing yards than the worst teams in the league, but we're right there with them as far as our inability to move the scoreboard.

You're better than anyone on this board at using stats to back up your arguments, so I'm certainly not trying to have it out with you in that regard. Just curious why you think we're not near the bottom of the league offensively at this point.

Nothing you said here is wrong, or even anything I disagree with, but when I think of total offensive potential, I think of everything: yards, points, win percentage added, drive stats, sabermetric numbers like DVOA or DYAR, I'd consider all of it. There's no reason to ignore any information.

Of course, when you put together your argument, you can't just list everything you every considered, you just use the stuff that most directly proves what you are trying to say. Like PF: it works just fine.

Unless of course, the preponderance of evidence suggests that PF (in this case) is misleading. If on no other level, is the Redskins offense comparable to Oakland or Cleveland, then the comparison is probably unwarranted. As you pointed out, we can chew up the yards and run more plays than either those teams on pretty much a weekly basis. Even if the point total of the same, it's not hard to see that an offense that scores 16 points and gets 370 yards, with no turnovers is more productive than the one that gets 16 points while amassing only 210 yards and three turnovers.

The argument that points are the end game, I feel, ignores that the actual end game is wins and losses. In strategic situations, increasing the probability of winning the game always takes precedent over maximizing points.

None of this is to say that points don't tell you anything, and that's an argument you'll never, ever hear me make. I'm just trying to point out that yeah, we've never had to endure multiple seasons of what a few other teams had to. And hopefully, this year isn't the start of a long string of ineptitude.

Understand my original response was probably too direct, and a bit unfair. But what I was trying to say was: if PF is your stat of choice, why did you only go back to 2008? If this has been a lengthy streak of ineptitude, wouldn't the trend be holding over a much longer period?

Of course, I probably ignored that you were trying to link this back to Zorn, but again, in the context of the post you responded to me with, I was never talking about Zorn.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

GM, look in the mirror before you judge me. You made a bad argument.

1) you can't pick and choose a span to fit the argument you want to make. That's called cherry picking. That's all I said. Nothing more, nothing less.

2) you used PF as your only evidence, knowing full well that you weren't giving us the whole story. I know you're better than this, as you post here more than enough to show that you're a bright guy.

I didn't push the argument because I know you won't always have as short a fuse as you do after watching what transpired on Sunday. I certainly don't think any less of you for being pissed off with a bad outcome. I'm pissed off, too. But if you're trying to prove that we've been just as inept as the worst offenses in the league over the past few years, you're not going to have much of an argument.

I'm lost...if the Zorn era is what we care about (and most of us are in that boat I think), how does one concoct a larger sample size? He's coached 18 total games...that's the data set, period. Cherry picking would be like picking out the last two and going "Holy shit this guy is bad!" Otherwise you look at the whole data set and see he's right there w/ the offenses of Oakland and Cleveland, but lagging beyond the Detroit offense