Sally J.'s latest is spot on

[MrSpectre]

S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS!

:vomit:

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS!

Good luck with that. Remember, don't be a fan of the Skins again when things turn around under Snyder.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS!

Fine, Mr. Bandwagon. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS!

I'm sorry and I REALLY tried to be objective when reading that, but seriously, that just sounds absolutely stupid. So basically by your logic, you're rooting for the Steeler's management? Who gives a crap about the players or the coaches, it's the owner that I root for? Not only that, why not the Patriots? Why not any other team that looks like it "has" a plan? Is it because the Steelers won the Super Bowl last year?

Honestly, if you say that the ultimate goal of the NFL is the win the Super Bowl, then you might say the Steelers along with a lot of other teams over that span have been mired in mediocrity playoff-wise. The Patriots are really the only team who seem to fit your "bill". It's easy to be like, "Awesome! We won again." But in my opinion it would be ALMOST as maddening to be a fan of the Chargers or the Colts. While both are consistently good, they both don't do well in the playoffs (with the exception of the Colts Super Bowl year).

Your argument just sounds ridiculous. It's like you just want to be a front-runner like every other half-hearted Skins fan.

I might not be speaking for the entire fan base, but believe me when I say that we will NOT miss you at all.

[MrSpectre]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I'm sorry and I REALLY tried to be objective when reading that, but seriously, that just sounds absolutely stupid. So basically by your logic, you're rooting for the Steeler's management? Who gives a crap about the players or the coaches, it's the owner that I root for? Not only that, why not the Patriots? Why not any other team that looks like it "has" a plan? Is it because the Steelers won the Super Bowl last year?

Honestly, if you say that the ultimate goal of the NFL is the win the Super Bowl, then you might say the Steelers along with a lot of other teams over that span have been mired in mediocrity playoff-wise. The Patriots are really the only team who seem to fit your "bill". It's easy to be like, "Awesome! We won again." But in my opinion it would be ALMOST as maddening to be a fan of the Chargers or the Colts. While both are consistently good, they both don't do well in the playoffs (with the exception of the Colts Super Bowl year).

Your argument just sounds ridiculous. It's like you just want to be a front-runner like every other half-hearted Skins fan.

I might not be speaking for the entire fan base, but believe me when I say that we will NOT miss you at all.

No, Malcolm, I'm not rooting for the Steelers' management. Let me try again.

The Steelers have had three coaches over the last thirty-eight years. They've had a consistent policy of building through the draft with a concentration on offensive and defensive lines, then skill offensive players, linebackers, and defensive backs. They usually have winning seasons. When they don't, they don't panic and lunge after some savior free agent, wasting multiple draft picks in the process. Over time, that builds team cohesiveness, or, if you like, a positive culture. Management, players, and fans are on the same page, working together. They aren't at the mercy of a single megalomaniac and his pet toady.

To call for this kind of management is not being a "front-runner." As I said, I support the Nationals. But too many Redskins' fans seem to be the kind of idiots who, finding themselves in a deep hole, just keep digging.

Sorry if any of the words were too long for you.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

To call for this kind of management is not being a "front-runner." As I said, I support the Nationals. But too many Redskins' fans seem to be the kind of idiots who, finding themselves in a deep hole, just keep digging.

Sorry if any of the words were too long for you.

This is a Skins board, you're a Steeler fan. Why are you posting here? I think SS said it was steelernation.com. Have at it. There's too many idiot fans here for a smart guy like you anyway.

[MrSpectre]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

This is a Skins board, you're a Steeler fan. Why are you posting here? I think SS said it was steelernation.com. Have at it. There's too many idiot fans here for a smart guy like you anyway.

If the shoe fits, baby.......................

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

No, Malcolm, I'm not rooting for the Steelers' management. Let me try again.

The Steelers have had three coaches over the last thirty-eight years. They've had a consistent policy of building through the draft with a concentration on offensive and defensive lines, then skill offensive players, linebackers, and defensive backs. They usually have winning seasons. When they don't, they don't panic and lunge after some savior free agent, wasting multiple draft picks in the process. Over time, that builds team cohesiveness, or, if you like, a positive culture. Management, players, and fans are on the same page, working together. They aren't at the mercy of a single megalomaniac and his pet toady.

To call for this kind of management is not being a "front-runner." As I said, I support the Nationals. But too many Redskins' fans seem to be the kind of idiots who, finding themselves in a deep hole, just keep digging.

Sorry if any of the words were too long for you.

If you were previously a fan, then there is really no excuse. Maybe if you just started liking football and get a chub over well-run organizations, I MIGHT see some validity.

I'm always going to be a fan of the team first. Sure, the owner is part of the team, but there are plenty of other people that I truly root for. I'm not a Snyder fan myself, but because he doesn't run the team the way I like, I'm not going to change my loyalty.

Sounds like a really lame excuse to change.

[MrSpectre]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

If you were previously a fan, then there is really no excuse. Maybe if you just started liking football and get a chub over well-run organizations, I MIGHT see some validity.

I'm always going to be a fan of the team first. Sure, the owner is part of the team, but there are plenty of other people that I truly root for. I'm not a Snyder fan myself, but because he doesn't run the team the way I like, I'm not going to change my loyalty.

Sounds like a really lame excuse to change.

OK, Malcolm, just keep giving him your loyalty -- and your money. He only cares about the latter. The team may win occasionally, but it'll be by accident, with no continuity, no consistency, no mutual respect among owners, players, and fans. I've probably been a Redskin fan for longer than you (38 years). I don't need lectures from you about what loyalty means. Leaving is painful for me, got that? If you're staying, you have a responsibility to really address the causes of this team's dysfunction. Good luck with that.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

OK, Malcolm, just keep giving him your loyalty -- and your money. He only cares about the latter. The team may win occasionally, but it'll be by accident, with no continuity, no consistency, no mutual respect among owners, players, and fans. I've probably been a Redskin fan for longer than you (38 years). I don't need lectures from you about what loyalty means. Leaving is painful for me, got that? If you're staying, you have a responsibility to really address the causes of this team's dysfunction. Good luck with that.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

OK, Malcolm, just keep giving him your loyalty -- and your money. He only cares about the latter. The team may win occasionally, but it'll be by accident, with no continuity, no consistency, no mutual respect among owners, players, and fans. I've probably been a Redskin fan for longer than you (38 years). I don't need lectures from you about what loyalty means. Leaving is painful for me, got that? If you're staying, you have a responsibility to really address the causes of this team's dysfunction. Good luck with that.

I give the TEAM my loyalty and with that comes the good and the bad times and the good and the bad owners, players, coaches, fans and everything else that comes with being a REAL fan. You're not addressing while you're not wanting to jump on the bandwagon of any well-managed team other than the Steelers, so your credibility is REALLY lacking here.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

I don't need lectures from you about what loyalty means. Leaving is painful for me, got that?

Oh, I can give you PLENTY of lectures about being a fan. You keep talking about Snyder this and Snyder that. When do you address the players? When do you address the fans? And you talk to me about addressing the needs of the team...

Are you fucking kidding me?

Someone comes along that you don't like for a few years and now you're going to jump ship? That's absolutely laughable. Obviously I won't change your mind, nor will you change mine, but the overwhelming majority of people here think that you're just some half-hearted excuse for a football fan. Will you still be up the Steelers ass when they maybe make the playoffs the next five or ten years but still lose? Would the fact they have an owner who "gets in" make the playoff losses worth it? I bet some of the same Lions and Raiders fans who decided to root for another team decided to pick a team like the Steelers or the Patriots too.

Nice job big guy, you're in good company.

[JGisLordOfTheRings]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Oh, I can give you PLENTY of lectures about being a fan. You keep talking about Snyder this and Snyder that. When do you address the players? When do you address the fans? And you talk to me about addressing the needs of the team...

Are you fucking kidding me?

Someone comes along that you don't like for a few years and now you're going to jump ship? That's absolutely laughable. Obviously I won't change your mind, nor will you change mine, but the overwhelming majority of people here think that you're just some half-hearted excuse for a football fan. Will you still be up the Steelers ass when they maybe make the playoffs the next five or ten years but still lose? Would the fact they have an owner who "gets in" make the playoff losses worth it? I bet some of the same Lions and Raiders fans who decided to root for another team decided to pick a team like the Steelers or the Patriots too.

Nice job big guy, you're in good company.

Sick burn imo lmfao

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Oh, I can give you PLENTY of lectures about being a fan. You keep talking about Snyder this and Snyder that. When do you address the players? When do you address the fans? And you talk to me about addressing the needs of the team...

Are you fucking kidding me?

Someone comes along that you don't like for a few years and now you're going to jump ship? That's absolutely laughable. Obviously I won't change your mind, nor will you change mine, but the overwhelming majority of people here think that you're just some half-hearted excuse for a football fan. Will you still be up the Steelers ass when they maybe make the playoffs the next five or ten years but still lose? Would the fact they have an owner who "gets in" make the playoff losses worth it? I bet some of the same Lions and Raiders fans who decided to root for another team decided to pick a team like the Steelers or the Patriots too.

Nice job big guy, you're in good company.

good post.