Return of Joe Gibbs - - Update

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

The team was much better off when Gibbs left than it is now, that's all I know. You can't deny the team has spun downward since he left.

That's debatable. It's not MUCH better off.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

That's debatable. It's not MUCH better off.

Not debatable if you ask me. This season is a disaster and the entire org. is in disarray.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

That's debatable. It's not MUCH better off.

When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.

Best sentence in this thread.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.

Well said!! Many people bash Gibbs about bad trading picks and making bad moves during Gibbs II. How the hell do we know that it wasn't Danny or Vinny that wanted this moves made and Joe just appeased them? We don't know what went on behind the scenes, we just assume.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Well said!! Many people bash Gibbs about bad trading picks and making bad moves during Gibbs II. How the hell do we know that it wasn't Danny or Vinny that wanted this moves made and Joe just appeased them? We don't know what went on behind the scenes, we just assume.

Well, that's kinda the point. If Gibbs was there and we still aquired mediocre talent, regardless of who was responsible, the fact remains Joe Gibbs was a part of this organization at that time. Yes, we were better. But anyone watching the Skins during his final season, could tell we were running on fumes.

My fundamental question is what has changed since Gibbs has left? Did he suddenly gain some magic touch to get people to come here that he didn't possess the second time around. Personally, I love Joe Gibbs as much as the next guy. And I know you guys are tired of hearing me beat this dead horse whenever a Joe Gibbs thread crops up. I just don't buy the notion that Danny only listens to Gibbs and he's the key to bringing in the "right" people. Somthing just ain't right about that.

We need to move on and start fresh. For the record, I don't want Dan Snyder to sell the team. We're about to possibly enter an un-capped era. So I want an owner as financially committed to success and winning as Synder seems to be. It's not his motive that anyone questions, it's his methods.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Well said!! Many people bash Gibbs about bad trading picks and making bad moves during Gibbs II. How the hell do we know that it wasn't Danny or Vinny that wanted this moves made and Joe just appeased them? We don't know what went on behind the scenes, we just assume.

They're all at fault. Gibbs traded away picks for Brunell when he was going to be cut. We gave up an extra number one to pick Campbell. I could go on and on. Some of what went on here is on Gibbs and we'd be foolish to think otherwise.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

They're all at fault. Gibbs traded away picks for Brunell when he was going to be cut. We gave up an extra number one to pick Campbell. I could go on and on. Some of what went on here is on Gibbs and we'd be foolish to think otherwise.

Wrong. I always correct people on this, it may be my biggest wp pet pieve. We swapped #1 picks (our 06 for their 05) & gave up a 3rd. The net result was we had to give them a 3rd, which is a high pick, but it's not a number one.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Wrong. I always correct people on this, it may be my biggest wp pet pieve. We swapped #1 picks (our 06 for their 05) & gave up a 3rd. The net result was we had to give them a 3rd, which is a high pick, but it's not a number one.

Oh...I didn't know that!

[Kalisto2010]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

They're all at fault. Gibbs traded away picks for Brunell when he was going to be cut. We gave up an extra number one to pick Campbell. I could go on and on. Some of what went on here is on Gibbs and we'd be foolish to think otherwise.

Gibbs did hinder our future by drafting Carlos Rodgers over Aaron Rogers IMO.

[mlmdub130]

Originally Posted by Kalisto2010

Gibbs did hinder our future by drafting Carlos Rodgers over Aaron Rogers IMO.

you could also throw both of dallas' d ends in that group spears and ware, and roddy white was drafted right after campbell too, regardless of who was in charge our drafting over the past 10 years has been pretty terrible we need a reallygood talent evaluator, someone who will actually do that instead of hosting radio shows and playing racquetball

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Kalisto2010

Gibbs did hinder our future by drafting Carlos Rodgers over Aaron Rogers IMO.

Hindsight is 20/20. Do we even know if it was possible for us to get Aaron Rogers at the time and still be able to get a high draft pick CB?

[Kalisto2010]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Hindsight is 20/20. Do we even know if it was possible for us to get Aaron Rogers at the time and still be able to get a high draft pick CB?

Before drafting Rogers our defense was already one of the best in the NFL. We didn't really need a CB, all we had to do was resign Smoot and draft A. Rogers. Rogers was projected to be a top 10 pick, he would of been perfect in our offense. If A. Rogers was our QB for the last 2 years, not doubt we would of been serious contenders in the NFC.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

When he left, the organization from top to bottom had come together as a team and was coming off a playoff run after the death of ST. To a man, the players, coaches and FO pointed to Gibbs as the influence that brought the team through and gave them the fire to continue.

The more I see of Zorn the coach, I am convinced that the 6-2 start to the 2008 season was a direct result of Gibbs influence the prior year. But for Gibbs, the 6-2 start would not have occurred. Further, (and I know this is the "what if" game), had Gibbs returned in 2008, the team would have found a way into the playoffs again.

Without Gibbs to exert some influence over DS, Cerrato and his toxic attitude became the main character of the organization. This was exhibited almost from day one when Vinny's people intimated that G.Williams bad mouthed Gibbs. That set the tone for the next two years.

The only thing Gibbs did not do that he should have done is said "Dan, Vinny's attitude and relationship with everyone else in football sucks. He cannot be in a position of control within this organization if it is to succeed."

To assert that Gibbs didn't raise the team out of the Spurrier Chaos or that it didn't immediately sink back into the Cerrato Toxic Dump without him, is IMHO not debatable.

No one loves or respects Joe Gibbs as much as I do. He's one of my idols. As fas as football is concerned he has never shown any ability to pick players. His strenghts are being a leader of men, managing people, being a great game day coach during Gibbs 1 and so forth. When has he ever put a professional football front office together? NEVER. He made numerous blunders coaching and in personel when he came back. But one thing he ( AND GREG WILLIAMS) did was bring back some dignity and respectability to the franchise. Williams isn't getting a lot of credit but he played a HUGE role here. His defense won that playoff game in TB. That is gone out the window now. But as far as what's on the field I don't think Gibbs could've done much with last years team. The same problems that Gibbs had, Zorn is having...game mgt issues, wasting TO's, shitty playcalling, an inability to score points. The best thing for Dan S. to do is call someone who is qualified to run a front office for today's NFL. That guy is not Joe Gibbs.