the years down the road

calia · 11-13-2009, 10:40 AM

We also need a partridge in a pear tree.

Man, that's a lot of players, although there are NFL teams that seem to have a significant number of new faces from year to year and it doesn't kill them (Patriots). They key, as others have observed, is having the management talent to find them and integrate them into the team, and that, sadly, we do not have at the moment.

Schneed10 · 11-13-2009, 10:46 AM

It can be done a bit faster than you think. You're right in saying that within 3 years our roster will need a nearly complete overhaul. But if you build from the trenches first, you can be reasonably successful with moderate talent at the skill positions (NY Jets, Baltimore Ravens).

We need to draft offensive linemen nearly exclusively this April. If we get some strong offensive linemen the offense will suddenly look a lot better. Hopefully whatever management we have next year is smart enough to realize that.

GMScud · 11-13-2009, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skins89moss

Look at Veron Davis it took him about 3 years to make a difference at TE.

It took Vernon Davis a Mike Singletary to make a difference at TE. Singletary turned his diva attitude into team captain material in a matter of months. I'm a big fan of him as a head coach.

GMScud · 11-13-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So you're writing off MM after he just saw his first action?

Still too early to write off DT and MK too if you ask me.

Definitely too early to write of MM. I think he'll end up being better in this league than DT and MK. I'm getting close to writing both of them off. San Fran doesn't have a great O-line, and Alex Smith isn't a good QB, and yet Crabtree has done more in his first few games than MK and DT have done in their first few years. First MK wins the starting job, then gets demoted, and neither have made any impact at any point. Both have had their work ethic questioned. I think that going into OTAs/camp next year, the WR poisition (among others) needs to be a wide open competition, and no one's job should be safe. Our WR's are an effortless, unproductive bunch.

MTK · 11-13-2009, 11:20 AM

Of course DT and MK have been disappointing, but the entire offense as a whole has been a failure under Zorn. Typically you're talking about a 3-4 year learning curve for WRs in this league. Behind QB the WR spot is the most difficult to adjust to for rookies. I know it's easy to want to cut them loose after this year but I think you've got to give them one more year.

GMScud · 11-13-2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Of course DT and MK have been disappointing, but the entire offense as a whole has been a failure under Zorn. Typically you're talking about a 3-4 year learning curve for WRs in this league. Behind QB the WR spot is the most difficult to adjust to for rookies. I know it's easy to want to cut them loose after this year but I think you've got to give them one more year.

Right, I'm not disagreeing with you, I just said I'm close to being done with them. If they don't come into next year showing a marked improvement, they can be cut loose and I won't bat an eye.

I know it's old, but I have to look at Stan Hixon again here. Effort and route running seem to be a huge issue with this group. For as "talented" as MK and DT supposedly are, they have come nowhere. Coaching? Perhaps.

skinster · 11-13-2009, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skins89moss

Look at Veron Davis it took him about 3 years to make a difference at TE.

I hate it when people argue about how long it takes other players to produce and compare them to Thomas and Kelly. Davis wasn't good in his first few years, but at least he produced a little. He averaged 35 yards per game and 3.5 Td's per season in his first two years. Thomas has averaged EIGHT yards per game and HALF a touchdown per season. Kelly has averaged SEVEN yards per game and has ZERO touchdowns. I cannot think of one player that panned our after showing this little promise over their first two seasons. Stick a fork in them, they are done. Best case scenario one of them will be a contributing receiver, but never starting material.

Longtimefan · 11-13-2009, 12:00 PM

Hopefull we'll have a new GM to thoughtfully sort through the debris and come up with an acceptable finding. You've incooperated a lot of senerios, some of which will sort themselves out. I agree we do however have some adding as well as subtracting to do, I'm content to watch how it plays out.

Eknox · 11-13-2009, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMScud

Right, I'm not disagreeing with you, I just said I'm close to being done with them. If they don't come into next year showing a marked improvement, they can be cut loose and I won't bat an eye.

I know it's old, but I have to look at Stan Hixon again here. Effort and route running seem to be a huge issue with this group. For as "talented" as MK and DT supposedly are, they have come nowhere. Coaching? Perhaps.

good point..

GTripp0012 · 11-13-2009, 02:23 PM

It's really not hard to be competitive in 2010 if you decide to do it the right way. The only difference is that you don't really get deterred if the 2010 team isn't as good as you'd like.

SouperMeister · 11-13-2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

It can be done a bit faster than you think. You're right in saying that within 3 years our roster will need a nearly complete overhaul. But if you build from the trenches first, you can be reasonably successful with moderate talent at the skill positions (NY Jets, Baltimore Ravens).

We need to draft offensive linemen nearly exclusively this April. If we get some strong offensive linemen the offense will suddenly look a lot better. Hopefully whatever management we have next year is smart enough to realize that.

Best point in this entire thread. We won a Super Bowl with Mark Rypien at QB and an aging Earnest Byner at RB because we had great line play. Focus on winning in the trenches, and much of the rest will improve dramatically.

Bubba1Putt · 11-13-2009, 09:05 PM

Hint....

Charley Casserly...

and he was soooo wrong on Mario Williams?????

wilsowilso · 11-14-2009, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba1Putt

Hint....

Charley Casserly...

and he was soooo wrong on Mario Williams?????

Heath Shuler QB TENN
Andre Johnson OT Penn State

Welcome to the board.

Mr. Casserly

djnemo65 · 11-14-2009, 03:27 AM

Dude, that's what rebuilding is, conceding that you need to start the team over essentially. It's not like we are the first team ever to go through this. I agree that we don't have a great foundation at this point but teams have turned around less in less than 3 years before. As bad as we are we're not worse than the 07 Dolphins, who went on to win their division the following year.

rbanerjee23 · 11-14-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Well damn dude, let's just become a expansion team and have a brand new draft lol.. You need to be realistic to what we will actually get. I say it starts with a tackle, and qb in the first two rounds of our draft. After that, we can start talking about every other hole that needs to be filled

You really feel like a qb and a tackle are going to solve anything...the way I see it, you need at least 2 if not 3 offensive linemen in this draft to even have a shot at rebuilding quick. JC is not the main problem...is he the best qb in the world, absolutely not...but u put peyton manning behind that line and we would be marginally better - you have to build up the trenches

11-13-2009, 10:40 AM	#16
calia Playmaker Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Woodside, CA Age: 57 Posts: 3,656	Re: the years down the road We also need a partridge in a pear tree. Man, that's a lot of players, although there are NFL teams that seem to have a significant number of new faces from year to year and it doesn't kill them (Patriots). They key, as others have observed, is having the management talent to find them and integrate them into the team, and that, sadly, we do not have at the moment.

11-13-2009, 10:46 AM	#17
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 46 Posts: 12,448	Re: the years down the road It can be done a bit faster than you think. You're right in saying that within 3 years our roster will need a nearly complete overhaul. But if you build from the trenches first, you can be reasonably successful with moderate talent at the skill positions (NY Jets, Baltimore Ravens). We need to draft offensive linemen nearly exclusively this April. If we get some strong offensive linemen the offense will suddenly look a lot better. Hopefully whatever management we have next year is smart enough to realize that. __________________ God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.

11-13-2009, 11:20 AM	#20
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,790	Re: the years down the road Of course DT and MK have been disappointing, but the entire offense as a whole has been a failure under Zorn. Typically you're talking about a 3-4 year learning curve for WRs in this league. Behind QB the WR spot is the most difficult to adjust to for rookies. I know it's easy to want to cut them loose after this year but I think you've got to give them one more year. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

11-13-2009, 12:00 PM	#23
Longtimefan Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Germantown, Md. Posts: 4,832	Re: the years down the road Hopefull we'll have a new GM to thoughtfully sort through the debris and come up with an acceptable finding. You've incooperated a lot of senerios, some of which will sort themselves out. I agree we do however have some adding as well as subtracting to do, I'm content to watch how it plays out.

11-13-2009, 02:23 PM	#25
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Evanston, IL Age: 37 Posts: 15,994	Re: the years down the road It's really not hard to be competitive in 2010 if you decide to do it the right way. The only difference is that you don't really get deterred if the 2010 team isn't as good as you'd like. __________________ according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

11-13-2009, 09:05 PM	#27
Bubba1Putt Camp Scrub Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: MS Posts: 5	Re: the years down the road Hint.... Charley Casserly... and he was soooo wrong on Mario Williams?????

11-14-2009, 03:27 AM	#29
djnemo65 Playmaker Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,836	Re: the years down the road Dude, that's what rebuilding is, conceding that you need to start the team over essentially. It's not like we are the first team ever to go through this. I agree that we don't have a great foundation at this point but teams have turned around less in less than 3 years before. As bad as we are we're not worse than the 07 Dolphins, who went on to win their division the following year.

the years down the road

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