Arizona's New Immigration Law

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

SS33, read your post, read mine and then read the first paragraph of the article you posted.



You can bash the gov for the lack of regulation and oversight and I won't defend that but I can not accept "pressure/programs" line. Never!

You may not want to accept it, but it was a contributing factor. And I certainly do NOT believe, nor asserted, it was "Tyrone's and Julio's" mortgages that caused the economic meltdown. I live in suburbia in VB, I'm well aware of the foreclosure and for sale signs everywhere.

What I was responding to particularly was jtf's comment about "free marketism failed miserably", which I disagree with.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by saden1

I would have thought someone would have started a thread about this but I guess I will. What's the point of this law? I don't get it.

It is political grandstanding by the GOP plain and simple. The Teapartiers have them worried so they have to come out like they are against illegal immigration like gangbusters. Thing is, stuff like this is going to lead to "Your papers please!!!!" It is rather sad. Russia and E Europe have thrown off the yoke of totalitarianism, yet our govt starting to embrace it.

[SBXVII]

Maybe if we had all the illegal immigrants write essays.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Maybe if we had all the illegal immigrants write essays.

were you just watching south park too? haha

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You may not want to accept it, but it was a contributing factor. And I certainly do NOT believe, nor asserted, it was "Tyrone's and Julio's" mortgages that caused the economic meltdown. I live is suburbia in VB, I'm well aware of the foreclosure and for sale signs everywhere.

What I was responding to particularly was jtf's comment about "free marketism failed miserably", which I disagree with.

We agree to disagree. Now we know where we stand. What do we agree on. It seems like people are agreeing on anything anymore. Which leads me to this question. What are your perceptions of America. Is America an English/European Christian empire or something new created by the founding fathers.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by saden1

SS33, read your post, read mine and then read the first paragraph of the article you posted.



You can bash the gov for the lack of regulation and oversight and I won't defend that but I can not accept "pressure/programs" line. Never!

The pressure came from the punch drunk builders. Building houses creates wealth. They built too many houses and tried to stave off the inevitable housing price decline by trying their best to put warm bodies in those houses. Banks who had invested in the over build mode had to try to get people in those houses. The crisis was caused by over bulding. Banks were throwing out cash to builders left and right. All these 500,000 dollar condos sitting empty. Don't sound like government hand out loans to me, or socialism. See this is the problem with the free marlet religion. They used to have a mantra "housing prices will always increase", and they believed this to be fact. So, if housing prices will always increase, then keep building. All the other mistakes else are just false conslusions derived from this false premise. Like always, the conservative tactic is to blame someone else stick the blame to someone. I made a mistake but it wasn't my mistake you didn't listen to me, totally. Totally submit to my philosophy next time and I won't make those mistakes.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

The pressure came from the punch drunk builders. Building houses creates wealth. They built too many houses and tried to stave off the inevitable housing price decline by trying their best to put warm bodies in those houses. Banks who had invested in the over build mode had to try to get people in those houses. The crisis was caused by over bulding. Banks were throwing out cash to builders left and right. All these 500,000 dollar condos sitting empty. Don't sound like government hand out loans to me, or socialism. See this is the problem with the free marlet religion. They used to have a mantra "housing prices will always increase", and they believed this to be fact. So, if housing prices will always increase, then keep building. All the other mistakes else are just false conslusions derived from this false premise. Like always, the conservative tactic is to blame someone else stick the blame to someone. I made a mistake but it wasn't my mistake you didn't listen to me, totally. Totally submit to my philosophy next time and I won't make those mistakes.

It's been said before and will be said again. Wow. Just wow.

Way to over simplify in order to validate your pre-existing biases. You clearly read just enough to be stupid.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

It's been said before and will be said again. Wow. Just wow.

Way to over simplify in order to validate your pre-existing biases. You clearly read just enough to be stupid.

Typical know everything conservative. They have all the answers. Talk about opver simplify "cut taxes" is the way to Nirvana.

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

And I certainly do NOT believe, nor asserted, it was "Tyrone's and Julio's" mortgages that caused the economic meltdown.

my apologies if that quip was in repsonse to your post, i should have clarified.... i have heard (first hand in person as well as from "the media") plenty of people say that the housing crisis and subsequent economic collapse was caused/mostly the fault of "giving mortgages" to "minorities." my bad for implying that YOU said that or believe that. but it's been asserted.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Typical know everything conservative. They have all the answers. Talk about opver simplify "cut taxes" is the way to Nirvana.

1. Did I assert that cutting taxes is the way to Nirvana?

2. Did I assert that I know everything?

3. Did I make sweeping general statements about complex financial relationships?

4. Did I make generic assumptions about large groups of people with points of view different then mine?

Did you do any of the above?

I would put you on ignore, but I find your semi-informed, over simplifications morbidly fascinating.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Rainy Parade

my apologies if that quip was in repsonse to your post, i should have clarified.... i have heard (first hand in person as well as from "the media") plenty of people say that the housing crisis and subsequent economic collapse was caused/mostly the fault of "giving mortgages" to "minorities." my bad for implying that YOU said that or believe that. but it's been asserted.

I have seen the same thing said but more from an allegation that predatory lenders/mortgage brokers were taking advantage of "unsophisticated" purchasers. Not sure if that is the same thing you are referring to. Undoubtedly, many of these unscrupulous brokers made promises of easy money to people who wanted to believe in "pie-in-the-sky" investmets and targeted low-income individuals. Plenty of fault to go around on that scenario.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

1. Did I assert that cutting taxes is the way to Nirvana?

2. Did I assert that I know everything?

3. Did I make sweeping general statements about complex financial relationships?

4. Did I make generic assumptions about large groups of people with points of view different then mine?

Did you do any of the above?

I would put you on ignore, but I find your semi-informed, over simplifications morbidly fascinating.

What came first the chicken or the egg? Did the inventory of (over building) houses exist before the sub-prime loans? Why would banks design such crazy loans? What would be their motivation? Government pressure? When have banks ever operated in this fashion?

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I have seen the same thing said but more from an allegation that predatory lenders/mortgage brokers were taking advantage of "unsophisticated" purchasers. Not sure if that is the same thing you are referring to. Undoubtedly, many of these unscrupulous brokers made promises of easy money to people who wanted to believe in "pie-in-the-sky" investmets and targeted low-income individuals. Plenty of fault to go around on that scenario.

agree, predatory lending was a huge part of the problem.

unfortunately i've been around people who claim not to be racist but then always seem to find a way to blame every issue/problem on minorities. in polite language of course.

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I have seen the same thing said but more from an allegation that predatory lenders/mortgage brokers were taking advantage of "unsophisticated" purchasers. Not sure if that is the same thing you are referring to. Undoubtedly, many of these unscrupulous brokers made promises of easy money to people who wanted to believe in "pie-in-the-sky" investmets and targeted low-income individuals. Plenty of fault to go around on that scenario.

Now comes the same simple question. Why would the banks approve and back thes predatory mortgage brokers. Mortgage brokers can't make the mortgage the bank does. Banks made it clear there was money to make and lot's of it for helping them put warm bodies in these houses. By blaming the mortgage brokers you are blaming the banks. The mortgage brokers got rich from the sub primte loans they are not at fault at all. The bank has to approve the loan. They were paid a hefty fee to reduce that inventory. They were helping the banks try to avoid the inevitable.

[Rainy Parade]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Why would banks design such crazy loans? What would be their motivation?

duh... money.

they didn't care if there were actual bodies in actual houses. they'd package up all these loans and sell them off to someone else. it was like hot potato they were just passing shit around to each other making money.