Rex Grossman may start this Sunday

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Yeah Matty I don't think it's just draft picks or having a good track record. Let's face it, we've brought in a ton of guys with sterling track records that have been utter failures here. Heck, Vinny Cerrato nailed some really good picks for the Skins.

Shanahan just doesn't seem to be on his game for all the dough he's getting. I get the sense that he's disciplined and tough, but not really on his game. There's no other way around it. I think when people try to figure out what's needling Redskins fans, the first thing they say is we're impatient or this guy needs time, etc. Shanahan bought in a bunch of retreads at RB, shuffled the oline all season long, and has been up and down with McNabb. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Really, there hasn't been all that much difference between him and Jim Zorn if you ask me. If you strip away the Super Bowl trophies, no reasonable person could convince me there has been any improvement at all. For $7 mil per year, I expected a little more.

Sometimes I just get the feeling that he and Kyle are just tinkering with the team on the fly.

Retreads? You mean Parker and Larry Johnson? Parker didn't make the team and Johnson lasted, what, 3 games? Are Torain and Williams retreads? What else was he supposed to do at RB with the available draft picks and corresponding needs?

The O-line was shuffled in part because of injury -- and that's what just about every coaching staff all over the league has to do -- also to give the other guys a shot to see what they have. If he'd have stuck with one group who got run over and couldn't protect all season long, the fans would be up in arms. I have no complaints about what he did with what he had up front.

McNabb? Outside of pulling him in Detroit, he has shown remarkable patience despite reports of being disenchanted with his play and lingering injury issues.

He came to an organization that had been woefully mismanaged for 11 straight years, an old, overpaid, roster and season after season with depleted draft picks -- and because Shanahan hasn't corrected it in one offseason and 13 games he might not be "on his game"? Seriously?

Honestly, what did you expect with a 4-12 team?

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Retreads? You mean Parker and Larry Johnson? Parker didn't make the team and Johnson lasted, what, 3 games? Are Torain and Williams retreads? What else was he supposed to do at RB with the available draft picks and corresponding needs?

The O-line was shuffled in part because of injury -- and that's what just about every coaching staff all over the league has to do -- also to give the other guys a shot to see what they have. If he'd have stuck with one group who got run over and couldn't protect all season long, the fans would be up in arms. I have no complaints about what he did with what he had up front.

McNabb? Outside of pulling him in Detroit, he has shown remarkable patience despite reports of being disenchanted with his play and lingering injury issues.

He came to an organization that had been woefully mismanaged for 11 straight years, an old, overpaid, roster and season after season with depleted draft picks -- and because Shanahan hasn't corrected it in one offseason and 13 games he might not be "on his game"? Seriously?

Honestly, what did you expect with a 4-12 team?

Well.....how many games would an experienced coach need? I figured we could lose the first 6 while he's loosening up and maybe win out through the SB.........then do the dynastic thing and repeatedly year after year dominate either NE or Indy for the Championship??

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Retreads? You mean Parker and Larry Johnson? Parker didn't make the team and Johnson lasted, what, 3 games? Are Torain and Williams retreads? What else was he supposed to do at RB with the available draft picks and corresponding needs?

The O-line was shuffled in part because of injury -- and that's what just about every coaching staff all over the league has to do -- also to give the other guys a shot to see what they have. If he'd have stuck with one group who got run over and couldn't protect all season long, the fans would be up in arms. I have no complaints about what he did with what he had up front.

McNabb? Outside of pulling him in Detroit, he has shown remarkable patience despite reports of being disenchanted with his play and lingering injury issues.

He came to an organization that had been woefully mismanaged for 11 straight years, an old, overpaid, roster and season after season with depleted draft picks -- and because Shanahan hasn't corrected it in one offseason and 13 games he might not be "on his game"? Seriously?

Honestly, what did you expect with a 4-12 team?

Again, the standard 'be patient' BS. Injuries are a part of the game, not an excuse. The fact that we dicked around with Willie Parker and Larry Johnson the entire offseason, while Brian Westbrook, Lagarrette Blount, and Marshawn Lynch were on the market is our fault, that's not an excuse either.

Joey Galloway, major retread. Jammal Brown, a waste and a retread. Adam Carriker, Kemo, Philip Buchanan, Artis Hicks, Roydell Williams, Vonnie Holliday - all retreads. And so many more rotten, questionable moves and non-moves Shanny has made.

McNabb is so done here it's not even funny. It wouldn't surprise me if the guy doesn't even want to come back. Of course he'll toe the company line, but let's see what the offseason brings.

Can you honestly say this team is better than last year's team?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Retreads? You mean Parker and Larry Johnson? Parker didn't make the team and Johnson lasted, what, 3 games? Are Torain and Williams retreads? What else was he supposed to do at RB with the available draft picks and corresponding needs?

The O-line was shuffled in part because of injury -- and that's what just about every coaching staff all over the league has to do -- also to give the other guys a shot to see what they have. If he'd have stuck with one group who got run over and couldn't protect all season long, the fans would be up in arms. I have no complaints about what he did with what he had up front.

McNabb? Outside of pulling him in Detroit, he has shown remarkable patience despite reports of being disenchanted with his play and lingering injury issues.

He came to an organization that had been woefully mismanaged for 11 straight years, an old, overpaid, roster and season after season with depleted draft picks -- and because Shanahan hasn't corrected it in one offseason and 13 games he might not be "on his game"? Seriously?

Honestly, what did you expect with a 4-12 team?

Improved on offense from last year, and if not improved, than at least as good as last year, with all the production coming from young players. That was the expectation.

When you isolate the receivers, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the offensive line, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the RBs, they are better than last year. Why are we, at best, no better than last year? It leaves a couple of options:

1) The tight ends have underachieved. This is unlikely. Cooley is a much better blocker than he was last season. Sure, he's having a dreadful receiving year and is frustrated with his role in the offense. But Fred Davis, who has been underutlized, plays like Antonio Gates out there when he gets reps. And Logan Paulsen is so much better than Todd Yoder that it's not even a fair comparison.

2) The quarterback play has declined from last season. If this is true, it's not showing up in the stats. McNabb is getting picked off more often than Jason Campbell ever did, but he's throwing more TDs, getting sacked less, and is creating more big plays. Overall, the production is statistically similar. Any argument that McNabb is playing worse than Campbell would have to be built around the fact that he has more help, like, Anthony Armstrong>Randle El. But I think the third option nullifies this fact.

3) The offensive coaching has declined. I think this is it. We went through 8 games with a crazy, gimmicky progression system that a veteran QB couldn't learn. We've improved the running scheme, but even in games where we do it well, we give up on it because we think we're a passing team. We probably are, but we waste a lot of plays stupidly, and we only trust McNabb as much as we have to. Which is more than we trust the running game. But not much. We refused to take Joey Galloway off the field no matter how poorly he played, decided Larry Johnson should make the team at the beginning, possibly costing the Texans game. We have no idea how to best use either Cooley or Davis. We have a Mike Sellers offensive package, for crying out loud. We won't give Keiland Williams, our best RB, the ball ever despite all the time Torain missed. We liked what we saw on film with Casey Rabach, somehow, and decided that he should be the center of this team (literally, and figuratively). They started Artis Hicks twice after pulling him for performance. They benched McNabb for Rex Grossman, and both Shanahan's think the world of Grossman.

It's been one mistake after another with these two. I'm not sure where the evidence is that either Shanahan can critically evaluate their OWN talent.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Improved on offense from last year, and if not improved, than at least as good as last year, with all the production coming from young players. That was the expectation.

When you isolate the receivers, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the offensive line, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the RBs, they are better than last year. Why are we, at best, no better than last year? It leaves a couple of options:

1) The tight ends have underachieved. This is unlikely. Cooley is a much better blocker than he was last season. Sure, he's having a dreadful receiving year and is frustrated with his role in the offense. But Fred Davis, who has been underutlized, plays like Antonio Gates out there when he gets reps. And Logan Paulsen is so much better than Todd Yoder that it's not even a fair comparison.

2) The quarterback play has declined from last season. If this is true, it's not showing up in the stats. McNabb is getting picked off more often than Jason Campbell ever did, but he's throwing more TDs, getting sacked less, and is creating more big plays. Overall, the production is statistically similar. Any argument that McNabb is playing worse than Campbell would have to be built around the fact that he has more help, like, Anthony Armstrong>Randle El. But I think the third option nullifies this fact.

3) The offensive coaching has declined. I think this is it. We went through 8 games with a crazy, gimmicky progression system that a veteran QB couldn't learn. We've improved the running scheme, but even in games where we do it well, we give up on it because we think we're a passing team. We probably are, but we waste a lot of plays stupidly, and we only trust McNabb as much as we have to. Which is more than we trust the running game. But not much. We refused to take Joey Galloway off the field no matter how poorly he played, decided Larry Johnson should make the team at the beginning, possibly costing the Texans game. We have no idea how to best use either Cooley or Davis. We have a Mike Sellers offensive package, for crying out loud. We won't give Keiland Williams, our best RB, the ball ever despite all the time Torain missed. We liked what we saw on film with Casey Rabach, somehow, and decided that he should be the center of this team (literally, and figuratively). They started Artis Hicks twice after pulling him for performance. They benched McNabb for Rex Grossman, and both Shanahan's think the world of Grossman.

It's been one mistake after another with these two. I'm not sure where the evidence is that either Shanahan can critically evaluate their OWN talent.

Cooley is on pace for 75 catches and 844 yards, both would be 2nd highest single season totals for him.

He's definitely been underutilized though.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Improved on offense from last year, and if not improved, than at least as good as last year, with all the production coming from young players. That was the expectation.

When you isolate the receivers, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the offensive line, they are doing better than last year. When you isolate the RBs, they are better than last year. Why are we, at best, no better than last year? It leaves a couple of options:

1) The tight ends have underachieved. This is unlikely. Cooley is a much better blocker than he was last season. Sure, he's having a dreadful receiving year and is frustrated with his role in the offense. But Fred Davis, who has been underutlized, plays like Antonio Gates out there when he gets reps. And Logan Paulsen is so much better than Todd Yoder that it's not even a fair comparison.

2) The quarterback play has declined from last season. If this is true, it's not showing up in the stats. McNabb is getting picked off more often than Jason Campbell ever did, but he's throwing more TDs, getting sacked less, and is creating more big plays. Overall, the production is statistically similar. Any argument that McNabb is playing worse than Campbell would have to be built around the fact that he has more help, like, Anthony Armstrong>Randle El. But I think the third option nullifies this fact.

3) The offensive coaching has declined. I think this is it. We went through 8 games with a crazy, gimmicky progression system that a veteran QB couldn't learn. We've improved the running scheme, but even in games where we do it well, we give up on it because we think we're a passing team. We probably are, but we waste a lot of plays stupidly, and we only trust McNabb as much as we have to. Which is more than we trust the running game. But not much. We refused to take Joey Galloway off the field no matter how poorly he played, decided Larry Johnson should make the team at the beginning, possibly costing the Texans game. We have no idea how to best use either Cooley or Davis. We have a Mike Sellers offensive package, for crying out loud. We won't give Keiland Williams, our best RB, the ball ever despite all the time Torain missed. We liked what we saw on film with Casey Rabach, somehow, and decided that he should be the center of this team (literally, and figuratively). They started Artis Hicks twice after pulling him for performance. They benched McNabb for Rex Grossman, and both Shanahan's think the world of Grossman.

It's been one mistake after another with these two. I'm not sure where the evidence is that either Shanahan can critically evaluate their OWN talent.

Did you actually compare Fred Davis' play with Antonio Gates' play?

Even Fred Davis' mother knows he is nowhere near the level of Antonio Gates.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Here's a question:

In the offseason, if the Vikings offered a 4th rounder for McNabb in 2011, with a potential for a 3rd rounder in 2012 if he plays really well for the vikings, would you take it?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Here's a question:

In the offseason, if the Vikings offered a 4th rounder for McNabb in 2011, with a potential for a 3rd rounder in 2012 if he plays really well for the vikings, would you take it?

Depends on what our backup plan is. If it's Grossman I probably don't take it.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Depends on what our backup plan is. If it's Grossman I probably don't take it.

Well if we trade mcnabb, were definitely using a 1st rounder on a qb

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Depends on what our backup plan is. If it's Grossman I probably don't take it.

U didnt know Matty, franchise QBs are numerous in free agency. Unless we draft Luck, we shouldnt trade McNabb. Rex Grossman is horrible and is not an option as a starting QB.

How bout get a couple RB, another WR and a couple OLinemen and try to get help where its needed. McNabb under Kyle and Shanny offense for a second year will show improvement alone.