Ongoing CBA discussions

[skinsfaninok]

You go to your Companies owner and ask for half of the profits, see what they say. That's business folks owners should have more money and control than their employees

[skinster]

I hope the owners come out on top, just cause I think it'd be funny if the consistency of owners ruling the nfl happened.

[redskins5044]

Name me a company where the the employees get more than a 50% of the companies profit? not many.

All of this is a joke to me, millionaires suing billionaires. I see where Manning, Brady and Brees are suing the NFL. Shouldn't the players that should be suing the ones who dont get the big contracts. Cry me a River NFL players. How about you save your money and have a good investment plan. I am sick of hearing that you players but your body on the line and take all the risk. We have members of the U.S. military that put there life on the lines and put there bodies on the line.

The NFL minimum in 2010 was 355,000. Most people would love to make that much in 7 years let alone 1 year as a bench warmer.

[FRPLG]

Based on what is being reported the fallout from today should be blamed on the Union. Plain and simple. I had come to back them in a general sense in this situation but when John Mara, who is pretty even keeled guy, comes out and says he was convinced they never took negotiating seriously then I lose a lot of respect from De Smith and the leaders of their union. Shame on them for this. I hope they get skewered in the courts. I don't much care who makes all the money so now I really hope the players take it in the shorts for a while until they realize they were led to slaughter by their lawyer leaders.

[Hog1]

Dear HOG1,

When I wrote to you last on behalf of the NFL, we promised you that we would work tirelessly to find a collectively bargained solution to our differences with the players' union. Subsequent to that letter to you, we agreed that the fastest way to a fair agreement was for everyone to work together through a mediation process. For the last three weeks I have personally attended every session of mediation, which is a process our clubs sincerely believe in.

Unfortunately, I have to tell you that earlier today the players' union walked away from mediation and collective bargaining and has initiated litigation against the clubs. In an effort to get a fair agreement now, our clubs offered a deal today that was, among other things, designed to have no adverse financial impact on veteran players in the early years, and would have met the players’ financial demands in the latter years of the agreement.

The proposal we made included an offer to narrow the player compensation gap that existed in the negotiations by splitting the difference; guarantee a reallocation of savings from first-round rookies to veterans and retirees without negatively affecting compensation for rounds 2-7; no compensation reduction for veterans; implement new year-round health and safety rules; retain the current 16-4 season format for at least two years with any subsequent changes subject to the approval of the league and union; and establish a new legacy fund for retired players ($82 million contributed by the owners over the next two years).

It was a deal that offered compromise, and would have ensured the well-being of our players and guaranteed the long-term future for the fans of the great game we all love so much. It was a deal where everyone would prosper.

We remain committed to collective bargaining and the federal mediation process until an agreement is reached, and call on the union to return to negotiations immediately. NFL players, clubs, and fans want an agreement. The only place it can be reached is at the bargaining table.

While we are disappointed with the union's actions, we remain steadfastly committed to reaching an agreement that serves the best interest of NFL players, clubs and fans, and thank you for your continued support of our League. First and foremost it is your passion for the game that drives us all, and we will not lose sight of this as we continue to work for a deal that works for everyone.



Yours, Truly HOG1
Roger Goodell

****The Rog took time out of a busy schedule to send me a personal note...he's thoughtful like that.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

These players make hundreds of millions more than those that first decertified and made valiant strides to get fair deals for all involved.

No, players don't make hundreds of millions of dollars. For every Peyton Manning, there are 10 Brandon Banks making squat (in the grand scheme of things) compared to the lavish contracts you hear about. Also, you have one owner (who doesn't do shit) getting paid 100-400 million a year on profits alone. Again, it's the players who ARE the product, not the stadium. Until the owners sacrifice their body and health, then that money should be going to the players.

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

These nflpa personnel, and particularly the non player demaurice smith, are a bunch of arrogant sob's who think that they are partners in a business when they are not, it is just not their legal position whether there are 1700 or 17000 members in their union.

You are right, they aren't partners in the business. They ARE the business. If they left and went to the UFL or formed another league, guess who would watch. The fans would. Why? Because that's where the talent (read..product) is that we currently pay for. So because Smith chooses not to be buddy buddy with the owners and kiss their ass, he's a arrogant SOB? Dude, have you a clue to any of the owners? Every last one of them are arrogant SOBs starting with the biggest one off all being our dumbass owner.

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I make no comparisons to my position or job, these men have 4 BILLION dollars to partition among themselves for their health, livelihood, and fair compensation for being the best of the best and they don't see that as reasonable.

Hey, guess what? The owners have 5 billion to split with 32 people as compared to having to split 4 billion with 1696 people. Wonder who's coming out on top? You are making this too easy.

These men have a average of 4 years in the NFL to make enough money to sustain them for the rest of their life. Most aren't making the big bucks like Tom Brady. Most of these guys will sacrifice their future quality of life just to make this money. As you've noted as late with all the incidents coming up about old NFL players health from prolong concussions, and the NFL has left them high and dry.

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I call bs. Not because I am ignorant nor because the owners have been "good faith actors", but because the players association has been full of b.s. since smith started spewing his lies and leading good players and good men astray like lost sheep.

Really? What lies are those? Care to point them out? To say the players association has been full of B.S. and putting the players at fault is beyond ignorant. Guess what. If the OWNERS hadn't opted out, there would still be a CBA and still football on the table. THIS IS ALL ON THE OWNERS. They made the claim that their profits have decreased YET aren't willing to show the books. OWNERS FAULT. Again, the players aren't the ones that opted out of this and to make it seem like the players are behind this is ignorance at it's fullest. I showed you where the NFL has been positioning themselves from the moment they signed the 2006 CBA to opt out 2 years later. They were planning this coup the moment they signed along with Gene Upshaw. This was in the works LONG before Smith was put in to lead the NFLPA. You are so blind, it's not even funny. Are you ones of these guys that watch Fox, CNN, or MSNBC and swallow everything they tell you as 100% truth?

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

(Ps nc skins I refrained from saying a particular statement towards you for your comment about people who disagree with your point of view towards corporations, but really f that opening statement.)

You can say what you want, but the fact remains that people are ignorant about the situation. I don't think you are ignorant just because you disagree with me, I think people are ignorant because they aren't seeing the reality of it (see my original post). How can the players be at fault when they aren't the ones that have caused this crisis, it was the owners by opting out of the CBA. We(including myself) are all ignorant about something or another so don't take it as a personal shot, it's not.


Let's do another recap on the situation here:

1) Owners opted out of this deal, NOT the players.
2) Owners have been positioning themselves for a lockout for years. (trying to exempt themselves from Monopoly rules via Supreme Court, brokering TV contracts with a lockout payment clause)
3) Owners refuse to show books claiming profit loss over the past years and wants the players to "trust them" on the numbers. (mind you, this profit loss could be from making 300 million one year to 299 million the following.)

[Defensewins]

FRPGL - Because John Mara is an even keeled guy? That is a great reason.
Rather than basing your opinion on emotion or because you like this guy over that guy, how about base your opinion on facts?
Both sides have agreed this whole thing came down to one thing.....the owners claimed they lost money. Based on that claim they were asking for concessions from the players and basing thier entire argument. The players said that is fine and if you owners are losing money we will gladly give back some of our take. But before we do that blindly we need the owners to OPEN YOUR BOOKS AND PROVE YOU ARE LOSING MONEY!!!!!!!!
I do not care how even keeled John MAra is, the man crush you have on Roger Goddell or how much you can not stand DeSmith, base your opinion on the facts of the disagreement points and not a popularity contest.
Both side came out with prepared speechs today, those speeches mean nothing.
They are political bullshit.
The owners opened the door to to the claim they are losing money. They made a mistake because in order prove their point they have to show the proof. You can not just take a persons word on it in negotiations.

[redskins5044]

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;788664]No, players don't make hundreds of millions of dollars. For every Peyton Manning, there are 10 Brandon Banks making squat (in the grand scheme of things) compared to the lavish contracts you hear about. Also, you have one owner (who doesn't do shit) getting paid 100-400 million a year on profits alone. Again, it's the players who ARE the product, not the stadium. Until the owners sacrifice their body and health, then that money should be going to the players.

Then why are Manning, Brady and Brees the front runners for the lawsuit. The general public wont have sympathy for these guys, they make hundreds of millions of dollars.


I dont call making about 300,000 dollars a year making squat. The players play a game the puts there body in danger. If they dont want to get hurt then dont play this "GAME" for a living.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by redskins5044

Name me a company where the the employees get more than a 50% of the companies profit? not many.

All of this is a joke to me, millionaires suing billionaires. I see where Manning, Brady and Brees are suing the NFL. Shouldn't the players that should be suing the ones who dont get the big contracts. Cry me a River NFL players. How about you save your money and have a good investment plan. I am sick of hearing that you players but your body on the line and take all the risk. We have members of the U.S. military that put there life on the lines and put there bodies on the line.

The NFL minimum in 2010 was 355,000. Most people would love to make that much in 7 years let alone 1 year as a bench warmer.

You do realize it is the owners that is trying to lock the players out. Not the other way around. Right? The owners are crying a river and saying they are losing money, not the players. You do realize that right?
The owners are not wanting to open their books for a reason. Why do think that reason is?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

You go to your Companies owner and ask for half of the profits, see what they say. That's business folks owners should have more money and control than their employees

Originally Posted by redskins5044

Name me a company where the the employees get more than a 50% of the companies profit? not many.

All of this is a joke to me, millionaires suing billionaires. I see where Manning, Brady and Brees are suing the NFL. Shouldn't the players that should be suing the ones who dont get the big contracts. Cry me a River NFL players. How about you save your money and have a good investment plan. I am sick of hearing that you players but your body on the line and take all the risk. We have members of the U.S. military that put there life on the lines and put there bodies on the line.

The NFL minimum in 2010 was 355,000. Most people would love to make that much in 7 years let alone 1 year as a bench warmer.

I think both of you need to read my post #314. Stop comparing this to some normal business. It's not. It's not even remotely close and you know why? Because they are the business and they aren't replaceable. You (and I) are so we'll never have that leverage.

Let me explain something. If you had a talent that couldn't be duplicated in the world and your job made BILLIONS off of you and they tried to short change you, what would you do? Would you take their word on it that their profit margins were declining. Mind you, you have made this company rich beyond it's wildest imagination. My guess is no you would not. You'd demand to see proof or you'd walk away and take your talent elsewhere.

Can you replace the Rolling Stones? No.
Can you replace Jimmie Johnson(nascar)? No.
Can you replace Peyton Manning? No.
Can you replace Joe the Plumber? Yes.
Can you replace Dale the lawyer? Yes.
Can you replace Chris Johnson? No.
Can you replace Kanye West? No.


See. The average joes (you and i) dont' have that luxury, they do. Stop comparing your trade (or employer) to theirs.

[CRedskinsRule]

The players, as a group - as I referred to them- do make hundreds of millions, in fact they make 4billion, but I was comparing to those players who were playing the last time the union decertified, and I don't know the exact amounts players made in the late 80s and 90s , so I figured that it was safe to say current players, as a group, are making hundreds of millions more than those in the past eras. Hope that clarifies my point for you.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by redskins5044

Then why are Manning, Brady and Brees the front runners for the lawsuit. The general public wont have sympathy for these guys, they make hundreds of millions of dollars.


I dont call making about 300,000 dollars a year making squat. The players play a game the puts there body in danger. If they dont want to get hurt then dont play this "GAME" for a living.

They are front runners on the lawsuit because they are leaders and representatives. You realize that a rookie is even on the list.

Also involved in bringing the lawsuit: San Diego receiver Vincent Jackson, Minnesota linebacker Ben Leber and defensive end Brian Robison, New England guard Logan Mankins, New York Giants defensive end Osi Umenyiora, Kansas City linebacker Mike Vrabel, and Texas A&M linebacker Von Miller, who is entered in this year's draft.

These guys are collectively suing on behalf of the players. The purpose was to have well known guys, to obscure guys, to guys who haven't even played a snap yet.

So you are fine with some rich asshole sitting in the owners box pulling down 400 million a year on profit alone (and worth over a billion dollars), but it boils your blood to see guys who put their health on the line to make 300k? Think about that for a second. Just think. America's mindset is warped. Also, 300k in the grand scheme of things when talking about 9 billion is "squat". It's huge to us because our talent (whatever it may be) doesn't demand that type of compensation.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

The players, as a group - as I referred to them- do make hundreds of millions, in fact they make 4billion, but I was comparing to those players who were playing the last time the union decertified, and I don't know the exact amounts players made in the late 80s and 90s , so I figured that it was safe to say current players, as a group, are making hundreds of millions more than those in the past eras. Hope that clarifies my point for you.

Gotcha.


Point still is, 1696 guys have to split 4 billion. 32 guys get to split 5 billion. Which side is making out better?

[Hog1]

This is getting to be a very....emotional issue and seriously straying from any semblance of fact? I am not really sure how this differs much from any Union/Mgmt bargaining situation?
Workers.....work and provide the product and get all they can from the Mgmt......
Mgmt.....manages the workers to produce the product and get all they can from the workers.......
A bit simplistic, but true nonetheless? Is that somehow different from what is going on here?

[CRedskinsRule]

Also nc_skins, let the players go to the cfl or ufl or open a new league see what revenues they pull in versus the nfl with replacement players with the tv contracts in place, the stadium leases signed and all the other parts that the ownership maintains. I am willing to bet that the players as a group won't be matching that 4billion dollar mark. While the NFL and established teams would. You may think the owners simply twiddle their thumbs, but they have they established credit and name reputation that would win the day. Out of the 1700 players there are a handful that are true exceptionals, ie manning brees etc but for every manning the league would most likely find a brady in the udfa or fletcher or other man who might not have gotten the chance with the current rosters in place.

As for the owners opting out, they followed an agreed upon point in the last cba. The players now have said they don't want to mediate or negotiate. They want to litigate. That is their choice. Both parties have led it to this point neither is a victim and neither deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Like I said before these points have been clearly put out there before: but since you like summaries:

1) nflpa has decertified rather than mediate
2) after decertification smith continued to try and get 10 yrs of data under the false pretense of being a legitimate bargaining entity.
3) players have seen unparallelled salary growth in the last 10 years as the result of a solid advantage gained in the last cba
4) owners acted within their legal rights when they opted out, and both parties could have tried to mediate and solve this issue
5) tom cruise doesn't get 50% of a movie studios box receipt and pavarotti doesn't ask to see all the books at that opera house, only the box office take that he brings in and both pavarotti and the operahouse enjoy success with that arrangement