8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

More people, it seems, can relate to a billionaire that runs a business than a millionaire athlete that has taken advantage of natural talents. To many, players don't deserve much respect because all they are doing is playing a game.

I think this is from North Dallas 40: "When we say it's a game, they say it's a business. When we say it's business, they say it's a game."

Let me start by saying I have come off a bit from my earlier take on things (still think DeMaurice is just a high priced ambo chaser and douche). Plenty of shady legal wrangling by both sides - players "decertification", owners TV deal. Lots of legal posturing by both sides - to me it's clear both sides prepped for this contingency.

(BTW - For the record, and for all the reasons FRPLG said wayyyy back in the thread the "open your books" argument is a BS argument - just not going to rehash it except to say that the NFL opened its books as much as any employer should be expected to - for more than that, see the much more intelligent articulation that concept by FRPLG).

The players are like any "employees" with a useful talent. Given their ability to generate wealth for others, they, as a group, have considerable leverage in deciding how they will be compensated for this. Maybe the perception that players were just "playing a game" existed in the strikes of the 80's where the NFL was not THE predominant (by far) sporting entertainment business. NFL Football, however, has not been "just a game" for at least 30 years and in the last 10-20, IMHO, even the most ardent "fan of the game" has had any naivete on that issue torn away. The blatant fact is that the NFL is a bazillion dollar entertainment industry and both owners and players are completely removed in sooo many ways from the realities with which you and I deal.

[To me, its comparable to actors. I was an amatuer thespian but I have no illusion that the little theater productions I did are in any way related to the entertainment industry's block buster films. Sure, I was just acting - but Brad Pitt (who is not nearly as attractive as I am) stopped "just acting" a lonng time ago. Similarly, the guys in the NFL stopped "just playing a game" sometime in college.]

Because of that, I am just not sure that the perception that NFL players are "just playing a game" is much of a factor any more.

My own take on the seeming slide of public opinion away from the players (other than those dedicated commies like NC_Skins ) is that (1) D. Smith comes off as an incredible hard line douche; (2) the owners have parlayed the tactical decision to decertify into the public perception that the players (and not the owners) are using shady legal dealings to get the courts involved; and (3) the owners are just flat out playing the public opinion game better - Goodell may be talking out of two sides of his mouth just as much as Smith but the consistent air play is "hey, we're trying - look at our offers" compared to DeMaurice "we're going to the mattresses" Smith.

Look - it's a business. More specifically, it's an entertainment business with billionare owners and millionare employees. Just like any other business, owners will strive to maximize their profits. Just like any other business, the players will strive to maximize their earnings. I am okay with both of these concepts, it's only when owners/players start playing fast and loose with the law or their mutally agreed upon contractaul agreements that I get pissed.

Just read this over - Much like the "negotiations", I sure spent a lot of time saying not much of anything.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I think this is from North Dallas 40: "When we say it's a game, they say it's a business. When we say it's business, they say it's a game."

Let me start by saying I have come off a bit from my earlier take on things (still think DeMaurice is just a high priced ambo chaser and douche). Plenty of shady legal wrangling by both sides - players "decertification", owners TV deal. Lots of legal posturing by both sides - to me it's clear both sides prepped for this contingency.

(BTW - For the record, and for all the reasons FRPLG said wayyyy back in the thread the "open your books" argument is a BS argument - just not going to rehash it except to say that the NFL opened its books as much as any employer should be expected to - for more than that, see the much more intelligent articulation that concept by FRPLG).

The players are like any "employees" with a useful talent. Given their ability to generate wealth for others, they, as a group, have considerable leverage in deciding how they will be compensated for this. Maybe the perception that players were just "playing a game" existed in the strikes of the 80's where the NFL was not THE predominant (by far) sporting entertainment business. NFL Football, however, has not been "just a game" for at least 30 years and in the last 10-20, IMHO, even the most ardent "fan of the game" has had any naivete on that issue torn away. The blatant fact is that the NFL is a bazillion dollar entertainment industry and both owners and players are completely removed in sooo many ways from the realities with which you and I deal.

[To me, its comparable to actors. I was an amatuer thespian but I have no illusion that the little theater productions I did are in any way related to the entertainment industry's block buster films. Sure, I was just acting - but Brad Pitt (who is not nearly as attractive as I am) stopped "just acting" a lonng time ago. Similarly, the guys in the NFL stopped "just playing a game" sometime in college.]

Because of that, I am just not sure that the perception that NFL players are "just playing a game" is much of a factor any more.

My own take on the seeming slide of public opinion away from the players (other than those dedicated commies like NC_Skins ) is that (1) D. Smith comes off as an incredible hard line douche; (2) the owners have parlayed the tactical decision to decertify into the public perception that the players (and not the owners) are using shady legal dealings to get the courts involved; and (3) the owners are just flat out playing the public opinion game better - Goodell may be talking out of two sides of his mouth just as much as Smith but the consistent air play is "hey, we're trying - look at our offers" compared to DeMaurice "we're going to the mattresses" Smith.

Look - it's a business. More specifically, it's an entertainment business with billionare owners and millionare employees. Just like any other business, owners will strive to maximize their profits. Just like any other business, the players will strive to maximize their earnings. I am okay with both of these concepts, it's only when owners/players start playing fast and loose with the law or their mutally agreed upon contractaul agreements that I get pissed.

Just read this over - Much like the "negotiations", I sure spent a lot of time saying not much of anything.

It definitely is. Even in this thread there have been people commenting on it. For a lot of people, professional athletes were handed a gift to play sports and take it totally for granted. There are many people out there who don't think it takes any effort to be a pro athlete and there are no long term repercussions, or better said, they deserve whatever repercussions there are because hey, they chose to play the game. A game we all wish we could play.