How far can Beck take us?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

I am all for giving Beck a fair shake and I really hope he does make me eat crow, but common sense based on historical precedent, doesn't bode well for MR. Beck. I also think that Shanny and the FO know what they are doing. They know drafting a QB this season without shoring up the O line and upgrading the WR corp with tall, physical athletes would have been a waste. We need a massive upgrade in all positions. I think Beck is just there to backup Rex and possibly get the fans excited about something in what might be a .500 type record year. For the record, I think Shanny is a very good coach, but I don't think you can use the two SB titles as an example of how good he is since that team was built already before he was HC.

I'm definitely not calling Shanny a coaching god, I'm simply saying he's an established coach with established credentials. He's nowhere near as bad a coach as Spurrier was. And using Beck as a way to drum up excitement for the team has to be the most asinine thing I've ever heard of. He's getting pounded on every message board, every tv station, and almost every website for his decision to go into the season with John Beck and Rex Grossman as his guys. He's staking his reputation on these guys. At least give him some benefit of the doubt. He has shown an ability to do things with lesser talent in the past.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by mooby

I'm definitely not calling Shanny a coaching god, I'm simply saying he's an established coach with established credentials. He's nowhere near as bad a coach as Spurrier was. And using Beck as a way to drum up excitement for the team has to be the most asinine thing I've ever heard of. He's getting pounded on every message board, every tv station, and almost every website for his decision to go into the season with John Beck and Rex Grossman as his guys. He's staking his reputation on these guys. At least give him some benefit of the doubt. He has shown an ability to do things with lesser talent in the past.

What do you mean? Everyone is talking about Beck, and whether he can do it or not!! That is drumming up interest!!!!!!!! Getting folks to talk, etc is still ginning up publicity. Jerry Jones and the Cowboys have stayed in the limelight using these type of tactics. If they didn't, nobody would give a rat's ass about them. Same with the Redskins. The new thing now among celebrities is to always stay in the headlines, even with negative publicity. You can't tell me the Cowboys haven't made $$$$$$$$$$$ off of their soap opera existence the last 15 years. And Snyder has Jones tactics down pat as well. How else can you be one of the richest sports franchises in the world and always putting out a crap product?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

What do you mean? Everyone is talking about Beck, and whether he can do it or not!! That is drumming up interest!!!!!!!! Getting folks to talk, etc is still ginning up publicity. Jerry Jones and the Cowboys have stayed in the limelight using these type of tactics. If they didn't, nobody would give a rat's ass about them. Same with the Redskins. The new thing now among celebrities is to always stay in the headlines, even with negative publicity. You can't tell me the Cowboys haven't made $$$$$$$$$$$ off of their soap opera existence the last 15 years. And Snyder has Jones tactics down pat as well. How else can you be one of the richest sports franchises in the world and always putting out a crap product?

You might be right about negative publicity still being publicity and all that, but starting John Beck is not a publicity move. Look at it like this: Do you think Snyder wants to win, or make money? Granted, he wants to make both. But winning is at the top of his agenda, because there's no doubt if the Redskins were winning consistently, he'd make even more money than he's making now.

Shanny is staking his future on these two qb's. If he didn't think they were capable of being a starting quarterback, we would've traded for, signed, or drafted someone that could be.

Being a coach is not about publicity stunts. It's about winning games. To think that Shanny would rather care about publicity than winning football games is asinine, because if he doesn't win games he won't stick around. And the bottom line is that Shanny and Bruce Allen are running this team, not Dan Snyder. You think Dan Snyder would go out and give 27 mil to a defensive end with minimal starting experience? Please.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by mooby

You might be right about negative publicity still being publicity and all that, but starting John Beck is not a publicity move. Look at it like this: Do you think Snyder wants to win, or make money? Granted, he wants to make both. But winning is at the top of his agenda, because there's no doubt if the Redskins were winning consistently, he'd make even more money than he's making now.

Shanny is staking his future on these two qb's. If he didn't think they were capable of being a starting quarterback, we would've traded for, signed, or drafted someone that could be.

+1 I was thinking the same thing about Beck vs Kolb:

Originally Posted by me from another forum

Imo people/many fans have a hard time separating a QB's individual talent from the context of their surroundings.

How much of Kolb's success is due to the Eagles FO, scheme, coaching, and surrounding talent?

How much of Beck's 'failure' was due to Miami's FO, scheme, coaching and surrounding talent?

That's why a proper assessment of skillset is important.

I don't think their is a huge difference between the skillset of Kolb vs John Beck.

But, even in this forum the perception is that Beck is barely more physically talented then Rex Grossman.

I think its a safe bet that if Beck wins the starting job here he'll put up better numbers then Kolb.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

What do you mean? Everyone is talking about Beck, and whether he can do it or not!! That is drumming up interest!!!!!!!! Getting folks to talk, etc is still ginning up publicity. Jerry Jones and the Cowboys have stayed in the limelight using these type of tactics. If they didn't, nobody would give a rat's ass about them. Same with the Redskins. The new thing now among celebrities is to always stay in the headlines, even with negative publicity. You can't tell me the Cowboys haven't made $$$$$$$$$$$ off of their soap opera existence the last 15 years. And Snyder has Jones tactics down pat as well. How else can you be one of the richest sports franchises in the world and always putting out a crap product?

The Paris Hilton of the NFL.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by saden1

The Paris Hilton of the NFL.

Exactly, but it is more than just the Cowboys or Skins. Look at all the other dysfunctional teams. They get free press. It is the new thing in marketing, just generate controversy, good or bad, as long as you get your name or product out there with some cheap publicity. Cowboys suck, Skins suck, and the Raiders under AL Davis suck, but get big press and always have full houses on gameday. You have the Lions always under the blackout threat because folks in the Detroit area aren't going to part with their hard earned cash so quickly for some shitty football. Plus with the winless streak over, the Lions don't generate much hype or controversy. Jones, Davis, or Snyder aren't dumb, they know the easier route to making $$$$$$$$$$, and that isn't winning unfortunately.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Exactly, but it is more than just the Cowboys or Skins. Look at all the other dysfunctional teams. They get free press. It is the new thing in marketing, just generate controversy, good or bad, as long as you get your name or product out there with some cheap publicity. Cowboys suck, Skins suck, and the Raiders under AL Davis suck, but get big press and always have full houses on gameday. You have the Lions always under the blackout threat because folks in the Detroit area aren't going to part with their hard earned cash so quickly for some shitty football. Plus with the winless streak over, the Lions don't generate much hype or controversy. Jones, Davis, or Snyder aren't dumb, they know the easier route to making $$$$$$$$$$, and that isn't winning unfortunately.

Probably should've done some research before you threw the Raiders in with your statement. The Raiders have sold out 1 home game each of the past two seasons, meaning that they've had 14 blackouts compared to 2 sellouts in just the past two years.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by mooby

Probably should've done some research before you threw the Raiders in with your statement. The Raiders have sold out 1 home game each of the past two seasons, meaning that they've had 14 blackouts compared to 2 sellouts in just the past two years.

You would think Raiders not selling out is common knowledge.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by saden1

You would think Raiders not selling out is common knowledge.

You would indeed, but nobody needs to check facts to support their argument nowadays. I'm curious to know if he knows that the Raiders were dead last in average home attendance last season. Mhm. Sounds like that whole good/bad publicity sells tickets idea only works if you're the Redskins or Cowboys, even though it's common knowledge nowadays that even the Redskins season ticket waiting list isn't what it used to be simply because we're tired of supporting a losing team year after year.

I even think there's some partial truth to the conspiracy theory that the Redskins knocked down the upper endzone seats to avoid having to answer questions about why their 200k waiting list didn't want to buy 5000 seats in the upper endzone. But, hey, the "reality" is that we're trying to drum up excitement and publicity by having Shanny start Beck or Grossman at quarterback this season. That'll do the trick.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Exactly, but it is more than just the Cowboys or Skins. Look at all the other dysfunctional teams. They get free press. It is the new thing in marketing, just generate controversy, good or bad, as long as you get your name or product out there with some cheap publicity. Cowboys suck, Skins suck, and the Raiders under AL Davis suck, but get big press and always have full houses on gameday. You have the Lions always under the blackout threat because folks in the Detroit area aren't going to part with their hard earned cash so quickly for some shitty football. Plus with the winless streak over, the Lions don't generate much hype or controversy. Jones, Davis, or Snyder aren't dumb, they know the easier route to making $$$$$$$$$$, and that isn't winning unfortunately.

How far back in history are you going to find the Raiders playing to full houses every week?

Same question for the Skins who probably have NEVER sold out a game in FedEx.