Arizona RB Tim Hightower traded to Redskins.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by GMScud

That is one of the more nonsensical things I've read on this board in a while. His stats are inflated because the coaches use him more? Yeah, you tend to have better stats than the next guy if you play more. Also, wouldn't the coaches use the better player more often? Not really irrelevant.

And the coaches deliberately decided to use him as the goal line back, thus giving him more opportunities to snatch touchdowns. The decision appears justified by his proficiency in said situations. The coaches could have used him in the goal line due to non-utilitarian reasons, such as personal preference or the like. Either way, his use as a goal line vulture would likely have given him a higher TD total for the season. Hence, his TD total is not particularly valuable in determining whether he's going to do well or suck.

Now, I probably should have worded the sentence a little better since the word inflate carries the connotation that the coaches were trying to make his numbers look good for no good reason.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

And the coaches deliberately decided to use him as the goal line back, thus giving him more opportunities to snatch touchdowns. The decision appears justified by his proficiency in said situations. The coaches could have used him in the goal line due to non-utilitarian reasons, such as personal preference or the like. Either way, his use as a goal line vulture would likely have given him a higher TD total for the season. Hence, his TD total is not particularly valuable in determining whether he's going to do well or suck.

Now, I probably should have worded the sentence a little better since the word inflate carries the connotation that the coaches were trying to make his numbers look good for no good reason.

So what is your argument exactly? His high touchdown totals aren't reflective of the player he is because he got a lot of goal-line touches? All that tells me is Wisenhunt gave the guy the ball in the redzone because he has a nose for paydirt. Is that somehow a bad thing?

His high touchdown total doesn't help in determining if he'll be good? Last time I checked, if you score a lot of touchdowns you're really helping the team, and thus pretty good. Pretty simple really. He's not Chris Johnson fast, but aside from that he really doesn't have any holes in his game.

I'm sure he won't be an every down back. The NFL is a committee game these days, not to mention that's not Shanahan's style and really never has been (Terrell Davis is an exception, and maybe Portis to a degree in his first two seasons). But to make a statement like "just because he scores TD in droves doesn't mean he's a good player" seems pretty silly to me.

It's really hard to argue that (if he stays healthy- and he's never missed a game in 3 seasons in the NFL) Tim Hightower will not make significant contributions to our offense this year.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Tim Hightower has the potential (not yet demonstrated) and the work ethic (all reports are very positive) to become the BEST RB THE SKINS HAVE HAD SINCE JOHN RIGGINS.

And before anyone asks, yes, I do recall that Clinton Portis was on the Skins since Riggo...

Now, if the Skins can put a decent OL in front of Hightower sometime in the next year or two...

[Alvin Walton]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Tim Hightower has the potential (not yet demonstrated) and the work ethic (all reports are very positive) to become the BEST RB THE SKINS HAVE HAD SINCE JOHN RIGGINS.

And before anyone asks, yes, I do recall that Clinton Portis was on the Skins since Riggo...

Now, if the Skins can put a decent OL in front of Hightower sometime in the next year or two...

Jeez....thats a heck of reach.
Good luck with that.

[dblanch66]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Tim Hightower has the potential (not yet demonstrated) and the work ethic (all reports are very positive) to become the BEST RB THE SKINS HAVE HAD SINCE JOHN RIGGINS.

And before anyone asks, yes, I do recall that Clinton Portis was on the Skins since Riggo...

Now, if the Skins can put a decent OL in front of Hightower sometime in the next year or two...

Hmmmm....I remember a guy named Terry Allen....and... oh yeah..Ernest Byner. Nice try, though.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by dblanch66

Hmmmm....I remember a guy named Terry Allen....and... oh yeah..Ernest Byner. Nice try, though.

S Davis was better than both IMO

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Tim Hightower has the potential (not yet demonstrated) and the work ethic (all reports are very positive) to become the BEST RB THE SKINS HAVE HAD SINCE JOHN RIGGINS.

And before anyone asks, yes, I do recall that Clinton Portis was on the Skins since Riggo...

Now, if the Skins can put a decent OL in front of Hightower sometime in the next year or two...

Curmudgeon...is that you?

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Curmudgeon...is that you?

Yes, it is I.

And Terry Allen, Stephen Davis and Earnest Byner were good RBs - - albeit Allen and Byner were here for only part of their prime years - - but Hightower had the potential to be better than any of them if he gets any blocking. I had no intention of insinuating that any of those guys were stiffs or stumblebums; they were not. Neither was Clinton Portis until the injuries caught up with him.

I think Hightower has the potential to be better than all of them...

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Yes, it is I.

And Terry Allen, Stephen Davis and Earnest Byner were good RBs - - albeit Allen and Byner were here for only part of their prime years - - but Hightower had the potential to be better than any of them if he gets any blocking. I had no intention of insinuating that any of those guys were stiffs or stumblebums; they were not. Neither was Clinton Portis until the injuries caught up with him.

I think Hightower has the potential to be better than all of them...

Wow, Terry Allen. That brings me back a bit. It's always funny to think about all the guys we've all but forgotten. Some of them are relatively recent guys from the Gibbs era like Marcus Washington, Lamar Marshall, Joe Salvae, and Ryan Boschetti. Then theres random guys from the Spurrier/Turner/Marty era like David Schotz, Sam Shade, Marco Coleman, Corey Raymer, Chris Doering, Kevin Locket, Walter Rasby, Ifeanyi Ohalete.

Funny how easily some guys just slip our minds.

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Tim Hightower has the potential (not yet demonstrated) and the work ethic (all reports are very positive) to become the BEST RB THE SKINS HAVE HAD SINCE JOHN RIGGINS.

And before anyone asks, yes, I do recall that Clinton Portis was on the Skins since Riggo...

Now, if the Skins can put a decent OL in front of Hightower sometime in the next year or two...

I agree. He has the POTENTIAL to be great... He just hasn't put it all together. IMO he'll have his best year as a pro, but he's nowhere close to being the best RB since Riggo.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by GMScud

So what is your argument exactly? His high touchdown totals aren't reflective of the player he is because he got a lot of goal-line touches? All that tells me is Wisenhunt gave the guy the ball in the redzone because he has a nose for paydirt. Is that somehow a bad thing?

His high touchdown total doesn't help in determining if he'll be good? Last time I checked, if you score a lot of touchdowns you're really helping the team, and thus pretty good. Pretty simple really. He's not Chris Johnson fast, but aside from that he really doesn't have any holes in his game.

I'm sure he won't be an every down back. The NFL is a committee game these days, not to mention that's not Shanahan's style and really never has been (Terrell Davis is an exception, and maybe Portis to a degree in his first two seasons). But to make a statement like "just because he scores TD in droves doesn't mean he's a good player" seems pretty silly to me.

It's really hard to argue that (if he stays healthy- and he's never missed a game in 3 seasons in the NFL) Tim Hightower will not make significant contributions to our offense this year.

Great post. I agree. Even if Hightower runs for 400 yards and 10 touchdowns (which would be excellent considering I think Torain and Helu will see the majority of snaps) next season, I'm sure some people will still be bitching.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by GMScud

So what is your argument exactly? His high touchdown totals aren't reflective of the player he is because he got a lot of goal-line touches? All that tells me is Wisenhunt gave the guy the ball in the redzone because he has a nose for paydirt. Is that somehow a bad thing?

His high touchdown total doesn't help in determining if he'll be good? Last time I checked, if you score a lot of touchdowns you're really helping the team, and thus pretty good. Pretty simple really. He's not Chris Johnson fast, but aside from that he really doesn't have any holes in his game.

I'm sure he won't be an every down back. The NFL is a committee game these days, not to mention that's not Shanahan's style and really never has been (Terrell Davis is an exception, and maybe Portis to a degree in his first two seasons). But to make a statement like "just because he scores TD in droves doesn't mean he's a good player" seems pretty silly to me.

It's really hard to argue that (if he stays healthy- and he's never missed a game in 3 seasons in the NFL) Tim Hightower will not make significant contributions to our offense this year.

Oh I'm sorry, did the words with negative connotations but neutal definitions screw with your head?
First word: deliberately.
1. Done with or marked by full consciousness of the nature and effects; intentional: mistook the oversight for a deliberate insult.
2. Arising from or marked by careful consideration: a deliberate decision. See Synonyms at voluntary.
3. Unhurried in action, movement, or manner, as if trying to avoid error: moved at a deliberate pace. See Synonyms at slow.

See? A deliberate decision by the coach IS NOT NECESSARILY A BASELESS decision. Clearly, you think baseless and deliberate are synonyms.

Do I have to bring up the stats from running backs from the ZBS in Denver or the completion percentage of WCO QBs to drill into your head that a larger stat value is not a definitive INDICATOR of "betterness". By your standards, Lendale White was elite in 2008. Well, White has dropped out of the NFL universe now, but I'm sure by your standards, those FIFTEEN TDs are truly a good indicator of a good RB. As a goal-line back, you've got more QUALITY OPPORTUNITIES to punch it in. He SHOULD be having higher stat totals due to having more opportunities.

Even at the higher baseline for TDs required to goal line backs to be deemed "effective" IN THIER ROLE, Hightower's TD production has been going down, with an abysmal 5 TDs last season. This is a part of a continuing trend of decline.


It's doubtful this guy is going to make his dough here as just a redzone TD vulture. It's going to be as a third down back who can block and catch who can hopefully bounce back from a mere down season.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Oh I'm sorry, did the words with negative connotations but neutal definitions screw with your head?
First word: deliberately.
1. Done with or marked by full consciousness of the nature and effects; intentional: mistook the oversight for a deliberate insult.
2. Arising from or marked by careful consideration: a deliberate decision. See Synonyms at voluntary.
3. Unhurried in action, movement, or manner, as if trying to avoid error: moved at a deliberate pace. See Synonyms at slow.

See? A deliberate decision by the coach IS NOT NECESSARILY A BASELESS decision. Clearly, you think baseless and deliberate are synonyms.

Do I have to bring up the stats from running backs from the ZBS in Denver or the completion percentage of WCO QBs to drill into your head that a larger stat value is not a definitive INDICATOR of "betterness". By your standards, Lendale White was elite in 2008. Well, White has dropped out of the NFL universe now, but I'm sure by your standards, those FIFTEEN TDs are truly a good indicator of a good RB. As a goal-line back, you've got more QUALITY OPPORTUNITIES to punch it in. He SHOULD be having higher stat totals due to having more opportunities.

Even at the higher baseline for TDs required to goal line backs to be deemed "effective" IN THIER ROLE, Hightower's TD production has been going down, with an abysmal 5 TDs last season. This is a part of a continuing trend of decline.


It's doubtful this guy is going to make his dough here as just a redzone TD vulture. It's going to be as a third down back who can block and catch who can hopefully bounce back from a mere down season.

There's room for just one "greater than thou" asshole on this site...and it's not you. So tone it down Webster

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

There's room for just one "greater than thou" asshole on this site...and it's not you. So tone it down Webster

Really?? Only one?? We sure have a helluva lot of runner-ups for the job.

I guess the Ego just wants to ensure competition for every position at the Warpath.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Really?? Only one?? We sure have a helluva lot of runner-ups for the job.

I guess the Ego just wants to ensure competition for every position at the Warpath.

lol...nice post