Smoot lays the smack down (Skins/Bills) - mattyk edition

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Yes we are. You have to read between the lines. When Shanny first took over this team, he flat out said it was going to take some time (stayed away from the "rebuilding" word though) but we were going to be competitive. He also said in a interview (regarding his son Kyle) that he actually advised him to stay in Houston because it was a better situation.

It's not hard to understand what this man is saying. He's saying it's a team full of garbage talent and it's going to take time to replace it. Guess what? Nothing has changed. It's STILL going to take time.

If you look back at the latest WP article regarding the whole Danny/Vinny/Shanny/Zorn fiasco, you also see that the source (aka..vinny) specifically said that Shanny told Danny boy that even if he did take over the team mid-season, it still wouldn't change the results. He's saying YOU GOT A SHITTY TEAM.

Learn to read coach speak.

So what if this was a shitty team, he hasn't done much about it because I don't see an ounce of change on this team. Our offense still sucks, our defense is somewhat okay, we still have a problem at QB, and we play with no desire.

Like I said, I didn't expect a winning team, but I also didn't expect Jim-Zorn-circa-the-swinging-gate-play type of team.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So what if this was a shitty team, he hasn't done much about it because I don't see an ounce of change on this team. Our offense still sucks, our defense is somewhat okay, we still have a problem at QB, and we play with no desire.

Like I said, I didn't expect a winning team, but I also didn't expect Jim-Zorn-circa-the-swinging-gate-play type of team.

NEWSFLASH: We are 3-3. Not, 0-6.

Ok, you had the restricted Free Agency off-season his first year and he was handcuffed with what he could do. (tried for Vincent Jackson but a no go) Sure he made a mistake with McNabb, but he also drafted a key part to the OL.

Second year during off-season is the lockout. He bolstered the defense considerable through the draft and free agency.

No QBs were on the market, and obviously none in the draft he deemed worthy of selecting at the spot we were at. (many teams reached) He turned the few picks we had into a masterful draft (even if they don't all pan out).


You can't turn shit into sugar my friend. Give the guy time and a chance to get more players in here with value.


Also, we've been hit hard with injuries, and our depth just isn't cutting it right now.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

NEWSFLASH: We are 3-3. Not, 0-6.

Ok, you had the restricted Free Agency off-season his first year and he was handcuffed with what he could do. (tried for Vincent Jackson but a no go) Sure he made a mistake with McNabb, but he also drafted a key part to the OL.

Second year during off-season is the lockout. He bolstered the defense considerable through the draft and free agency.

No QBs were on the market, and obviously none in the draft he deemed worthy of selecting at the spot we were at. (many teams reached) He turned the few picks we had into a masterful draft (even if they don't all pan out).

You can't turn shit into sugar my friend. Give the guy time and a chance to get more players in here with value.

Also, we've been hit hard with injuries, and our depth just isn't cutting it right now.

As I've repeatedly stated, I didn't expect a SB/playoff/winning record caliber team. But ever since the Giants game, the playing attitude of this team has been pretty poor. Also, the McNabb trade was a pretty big mistake and it probably set the team back a year or more in rebuilding.

Once again, for as much sh*t people talk about MS and how great he is, I would expect for this team to put up at least a fight. They haven't period. I hope it changes.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So what if this was a shitty team, he hasn't done much about it because I don't see an ounce of change on this team. Our offense still sucks, our defense is somewhat okay, we still have a problem at QB, and we play with no desire.

Like I said, I didn't expect a winning team, but I also didn't expect Jim-Zorn-circa-the-swinging-gate-play type of team.

We haven't seen that yet. And if the defense is "somewhat okay" then that would be your upgrade considering last season's D.

It wasn't possible to address every single need. This year the focus was defense.

How about this -- instead of taking a dump on each and every coach that comes to town, how about the players step up for once? Did anyone catch the graphic about all of the coaches after their first 22 games in Washington? It doesn't seem to matter if you have a legend for a head coach, a bad head coach, or a pathetic, clueless head coach -- the results are always the same with this organization. So when your trying to figure out what's wrong with a team, isn't it EVER justifiable to look at the players?

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

We haven't seen that yet. And if the defense is "somewhat okay" then that would be your upgrade considering last season's D.

It wasn't possible to address every single need. This year the focus was defense.

How about this -- instead of taking a dump on each and every coach that comes to town, how about the players step up for once? Did anyone catch the graphic about all of the coaches after their first 22 games in Washington? It doesn't seem to matter if you have a legend for a head coach, a bad head coach, or a pathetic, clueless head coach -- the results are always the same with this organization. So when your trying to figure out what's wrong with a team, isn't it EVER justifiable to look at the players?

Sure it is. And they are not doing their part.

But the buck stops with the FO and coaching. Just like in any other organization or company. The culture at the Skins right now is not a professional one nor is it a winning one.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Sure it is. And they are not doing their part.

But the buck stops with the FO and coaching. Just like in any other organization or company. The culture at the Skins right now is not a professional one nor is it a winning one.

Agreed. It seems that fans seem to feel that the buck stops with the front office only when it comes to matters like the Haynesworth situation or whenever a player runs their mouth. But when it comes to actual performance on the field, everything seems to be focused 100% on the players. The players have to do their part and they are not. But so do the coaches. Right now both the coaches, players, and team leadership are not doing a good job.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Sure it is. And they are not doing their part.

But the buck stops with the FO and coaching. Just like in any other organization or company. The culture at the Skins right now is not a professional one nor is it a winning one.

I'm a supporter of Shanahan -- still. Even now when things are pretty low. I think he needs minimum three offseasons before we can start making permanent judgements about his final product. That said, I'm certain that I, and other defenders of Shanny will have our work cut out for us if the team doesn't match last year's win total.

Things are bad, no doubt. But if some of us had our way, and we were ready to boot the FO and the coaches after one and a half seasons because the team has hit a rough patch, then this franchise is doomed for all time.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I'm a supporter of Shanahan -- still. Even now when things are pretty low. I think he needs minimum three offseasons before we can start making permanent judgements about his final product. That said, I'm certain that I, and other defenders of Shanny will have our work cut out for us if the team doesn't match last year's win total.

Things are bad, no doubt. But if some of us had our way, and we were ready to boot the FO and the coaches after one and a half seasons because the team has hit a rough patch, then this franchise is doomed for all time.

I'm not ready to boot the group and start over just yet. I'm so tired of the "it's not working lets start over" after every two years. I'd still give MS his 5 years. Honestly no HC was going to fix this ship wreck over night. The team looks better. But MS needs more of his type of players to include a more accurate QB.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I'm not ready to boot the group and start over just yet. I'm so tired of the "it's not working lets start over" after every two years. I'd still give MS his 5 years. Honestly no HC was going to fix this ship wreck over night. The team looks better. But MS needs more of his type of players to include a more accurate QB.

Exactly right. It'll become more clear as the season goes on, (if it's not clear already) that this roster was more horrific than any of us ever imagined. He might need every bit of 5 years to right this ship, and I hope he has that long with Lil' Danny.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Exactly right. It'll become more clear as the season goes on, (if it's not clear already) that this roster was more horrific than any of us ever imagined. He might need every bit of 5 years to right this ship, and I hope he has that long with Lil' Danny.

This ship has been sinking for over a decade now so he is going to need at least 5 years to right this ship.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Sure it is. And they are not doing their part.

But the buck stops with the FO and coaching. Just like in any other organization or company. The culture at the Skins right now is not a professional one nor is it a winning one.

I strongly disagree with your contention that the Redskins culture is not professional. I've seen no indication at all of an unprofessional culture under MS and BA. Quite the contrary, IMO.

Also, the rebuild of this team will take years. I said before the season started that I would be very satisfied with an 8-8 record this season. I still feel that way.

This past offseason, free agency was devoted to acquiring some needed pieces - primarily for the defense. The focus wasn't on stars or big names but on good, solid players. We also made two trades that helped us some on offense.

In the draft, we acquired two players who could become stars in the first two rounds. We also added some players who could turn out to be pretty good in time.

In short, we had a good offseason. There was no possible way that the Skins could overcome many years of incompetent player acquisition in just one year.

I think we need two more good FA periods, two more good drafts and some luck before we can hope to be contenders. I say we need some luck because we are going to have to land a franchise QB, and a true #1 WR, at a minimum, among those new players to get where we need to be. We need some stars on offense.

I think it is important to stay the course with Shanny and Bruce. I really can't see where they've gone wrong, so far.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I strongly disagree with your contention that the Redskins culture is not professional. I've seen no indication at all of an unprofessional culture under MS and BA. Quite the contrary, IMO.

Well, they were unprofessional yesterday, but you're correct. One shutout doesn't represent the whole of your operation. Now, if the shutouts keep coming then we seriously have a problem.

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I think it is important to stay the course with Shanny and Bruce. I really can't see where they've gone wrong, so far.

They've made some wrong decisions to be sure. McNabb was the biggest, and that set us back quite a bit. No excuses for that one. And if you see other teams stepping up and turning the corner quicker than we are, people are justified in asking "what about us -- why don't we have some playmakers in year two of this program?"

But yes, we have to stick it out with Allen and Shanny. You can't possibly have a situation where Vinny Cerrato gets a pass and hangs around for 10 years but these guys are 2 seasons and out. That's just crazy talk.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

We haven't seen that yet. And if the defense is "somewhat okay" then that would be your upgrade considering last season's D.

It wasn't possible to address every single need. This year the focus was defense.

How about this -- instead of taking a dump on each and every coach that comes to town, how about the players step up for once? Did anyone catch the graphic about all of the coaches after their first 22 games in Washington? It doesn't seem to matter if you have a legend for a head coach, a bad head coach, or a pathetic, clueless head coach -- the results are always the same with this organization. So when your trying to figure out what's wrong with a team, isn't it EVER justifiable to look at the players?

My comparison was to the team before Shanahan. Our defense was sh*t last year, this year's defense is of course better than last year's.

It's funny that you say that people take a dump on the coaches, b/c I feel that fans at least, always seem to be quick to blame the players.

You are right, the results seem to be the same, but I also feel that the coaches seem to be repeating the same mistakes. We are almost at the half season mark, and it seems that in today's NFL anything can happen, but I just don't have much faith in our outlook for the rest of the season. I would like to see the team play with a sense of purpose though. As people have pointed out, it seems that the only people doing that today were Fletcher, Rocca, and Davis.

[Bushead]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

My comparison was to the team before Shanahan. Our defense was sh*t last year, this year's defense is of course better than last year's.

It's funny that you say that people take a dump on the coaches, b/c I feel that fans at least, always seem to be quick to blame the players.

You are right, the results seem to be the same, but I also feel that the coaches seem to be repeating the same mistakes. We are almost at the half season mark, and it seems that in today's NFL anything can happen, but I just don't have much faith in our outlook for the rest of the season. I would like to see the team play with a sense of purpose though. As people have pointed out, it seems that the only people doing that today were Fletcher, Rocca, and Davis.

I hate how people equate production with passion. I could think of a Phillip Daniels who probably played with unbelievable passion every time he got in the game, but maybe didn't produce.