What is Matt Flynn Worth to the Redskins

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

This is my take on Matt Flynn. The guy is overrated. He has played admiringly great in the two games that he's replaced Aaron Rogers to run the first team offense. But against the Patriots last year and the Lions this year, that's only two games. The guy has not been a legitimate starter and you can't properly evaluate a back up quarterback based on what he did in just two lousy games.

Secondly, as a lot of people would agree, a free agent signing of a QB is not how you win in the NFL. In the last seven Super Bowls, a first round draft choice has played quarterback. If anything, that alone should be the standard for drafting your own QB. A free agent QB will always be hit or miss while a quarterback drafted in the first round is almost always a hit. In today's NFL, only a first round selection at quarterback guarantees success at that position.

Drew Brees won it, he was a free agent signing, and Kurt Warner went there as a FA to Arizona

[REDSKINS4ever]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Drew Brees won it, he was a free agent signing, and Kurt Warner went there as a FA to Arizona

As I said, hit or miss. But how often does that happen? Very rarely. Warner won the Super Bowl in 1999 and lost it on 2008. Brees won it in 2009. Warner was not a free agent pick up coming from another team. He signed from off of the street without any NFL experience. As far as Brees goes, the Chargers did get a draft pick later from New Orleans as compensation. Brees was released due to the Chargers having spent a #1 draft pick on Phillip Rivers and Brees was coming off a career threatening shoulder injury.


From 2004 until 2010, a first round draft choice played quarterback in the Super Bowl. Anyway you put it, three first round draft choice QBs remain active in the playoffs which means one of them or two of them will be in the Super Bowl again for the 8th straight year.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by REDSKINS4ever

As I said, hit or miss. But how often does that happen? Very rarely. Warner won the Super Bowl in 1999 and lost it on 2008. Brees won it in 2009. Warner was not a free agent pick up coming from another team. He signed from off of the street without any NFL experience. As far as Brees goes, the Chargers did get a draft pick later from New Orleans as compensation. Brees was released due to the Chargers having spent a #1 draft pick on Phillip Rivers and Brees was coming off a career threatening shoulder injury.


From 2004 until 2010, a first round draft choice played quarterback in the Super Bowl. Anyway you put it, three first round draft choice QBs remain active in the playoffs which means one of them or two of them will be in the Super Bowl again for the 8th straight year.

You cannot argue with data; you are absolutely correct.

Here is some more data you cannot argue with. Here are first round QB picks over the last decade or so who have been "less than satisfactory":

Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Duante Culpepper (injury ended his career early)
Cade McNown
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey (fondly remembered around here...)
Byron Leftwich (not horrible but not great either)
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman (you already have a first round pick in town; why worry about getting another one)
JP Losman
Jason Campbell (Skins ditched that first round pick...)
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn

The data say that you can find great QBs in the first round AND that you can find mediocre QBs in the first round AND that you can find QBs that just cannot play in the first round.

[theJBexperience]

Time to get testy.

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

You cannot argue with data; you are absolutely correct.

Here is some more data you cannot argue with. Here are first round QB picks over the last decade or so who have been "less than satisfactory":

Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Duante Culpepper (injury ended his career early)
Cade McNown
David Carr
Joey Harrington
Patrick Ramsey (fondly remembered around here...)
Byron Leftwich (not horrible but not great either)
Kyle Boller
Rex Grossman (you already have a first round pick in town; why worry about getting another one)
JP Losman
Jason Campbell (Skins ditched that first round pick...)
Vince Young
Matt Leinart
JaMarcus Russell
Brady Quinn

Here's another list. You can find data to support any argument. These are 1st Round QBs from the last decade or so who have been more than satisfactory.

Peyton Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Aaron Rodgers
Mike Vick
Eli Manning
Philip Rivers
Donovan McNabb
Jay Cutler
Matt Ryan
Matthew Stafford
Carson Palmer
Chad Pennington
Tim Tebow
Cam Newton
Joe Flacco
Josh Freeman


And then if we need even more data. We can go back a bit further and find some more stellar 1st Round QBs.

John Elway
Dan Marino
Sammy Baugh
Otto Graham
Terry Bradshaw
Doug Williams
Troy Aikman
Drew Bledsoe
Jim Kelly
Jim Plunkett
Joe Namath
Len Dawson
Phil Simms
Roman Gabriel
John Brodie
Bob Griese
Earl Morrall
Bert Jones
YA Tittle
Archie Manning

Don't you love lists?

[SirClintonPortis]

Re: The "list war" on this page.

The 1st round QB is a dangerous minefield, but it's a relatively safer minefield than other "fields" such as FA or trade. The difference between success or bust with a first round QB comes down to scouting and evaluating the mental makeup of the prospect.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Re: The "list war" on this page.

The 1st round QB is a dangerous minefield, but it's a relatively safer minefield than other "fields" such as FA or trade. The difference between success or bust with a first round QB comes down to scouting and evaluating the mental makeup of the prospect.

I don't think most are opposed to taking a QB in the first round. It's the part about giving up 4 or more picks to move up that causes anxiety. Seems to be about a 50/50 proposition on picking the right guy.

[theJBexperience]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

I don't think most are opposed to taking a QB in the first round. It's the part about giving up 4 or more picks to move up that causes anxiety. Seems to be about a 50/50 proposition on picking the right guy.

Where does four or more picks keep coming from? Only three picks involved to get the Eli Manning/Philip Rivers deal done a few years ago. I can't see it escalating that much to four or more.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by theJBexperience

Time to get testy.



Here's another list. You can find data to support any argument. These are 1st Round QBs from the last decade or so who have been more than satisfactory.

Peyton Manning
Ben Roethlisberger
Aaron Rodgers
Mike Vick
Eli Manning
Philip Rivers
Donovan McNabb
Jay Cutler
Matt Ryan
Matthew Stafford
Carson Palmer
Chad Pennington
Tim Tebow
Cam Newton
Joe Flacco
Josh Freeman


And then if we need even more data. We can go back a bit further and find some more stellar 1st Round QBs.

John Elway
Dan Marino
Sammy Baugh
Otto Graham
Terry Bradshaw
Doug Williams
Troy Aikman
Drew Bledsoe
Jim Kelly
Jim Plunkett
Joe Namath
Len Dawson
Phil Simms
Roman Gabriel
John Brodie
Bob Griese
Earl Morrall
Bert Jones
YA Tittle
Archie Manning

Don't you love lists?

You missed the point of my previous listing of first round QBs who were "less than successful. A previous posting said that you had to go that way because that was the way to get a great QB - - and a great QB was a necessity for the Redskins.

My list was intended to show that when teams have taken QBs in the first round of the draft over the last decade or so, lots of them have been ordinary - - or even worse. The list intended to show that drafting a QB high in the first round did not always produce desired results.

I have tried to suggest to folks here that the important thing is for the FO and the coaching staff to focus on getting a QB who will be successful. You can do that through free agency (Drew Brees, Michael Vick, Trent Green, Kurt Warner and John Unitas) but you can also make bad choices in free agency (Jeff George and Steve Walsh for example)

You can trade for successful QBs (Matt Cassell and Philip Rivers) but you can also trade for unsuccessful ones (Donovan McNabb - - here and in Minnesota - -, Mark Brunell, Kevin Kolb).

And you can draft successful QBs in the first round ( at about a 50%^ success rate) or you can draft a gut-bomb in the first round.

The important thing to realize is that it is not the path by which a team acquires a QB that is important; it is the acumen and the insight provided by the scouts and the FO to the coaches that makes the acquisition successful.

OH, you got a bit carried away on your list. Roman Gabriel was hardly a highly successful QB in the NFL in terms of wins and losses...

[theJBexperience]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

You missed the point of my previous listing of first round QBs who were "less than successful. A previous posting said that you had to go that way because that was the way to get a great QB - - and a great QB was a necessity for the Redskins.

My list was intended to show that when teams have taken QBs in the first round of the draft over the last decade or so, lots of them have been ordinary - - or even worse. The list intended to show that drafting a QB high in the first round did not always produce desired results.

I have tried to suggest to folks here that the important thing is for the FO and the coaching staff to focus on getting a QB who will be successful. You can do that through free agency (Drew Brees, Michael Vick, Trent Green, Kurt Warner and John Unitas) but you can also make bad choices in free agency (Jeff George and Steve Walsh for example)

You can trade for successful QBs (Matt Cassell and Philip Rivers) but you can also trade for unsuccessful ones (Donovan McNabb - - here and in Minnesota - -, Mark Brunell, Kevin Kolb).

And you can draft successful QBs in the first round ( at about a 50%^ success rate) or you can draft a gut-bomb in the first round.

The important thing to realize is that it is not the path by which a team acquires a QB that is important; it is the acumen and the insight provided by the scouts and the FO to the coaches that makes the acquisition successful.

OH, you got a bit carried away on your list. Roman Gabriel was hardly a highly successful QB in the NFL in terms of wins and losses...

Sorry, I missed the gist of it. You're right any time you deal in absolutes like that, you ask for trouble.

I disagree about Roman Gabriel. He was a league MVP, went to four Pro Bowls, led the league in passing, and is still the all-time passing leader for the Rams. His career record is 86-64-7, not exactly stellar, but he was a great QB, and the reason why all scouts covet size in QBs now.