How Scouting College Players Has Evolved Under Shanahan

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

None of what I am going to write is meant to be a defense of Vinny Cerrato.

But remember how in history we are taught that the people who get to write history are the victors/people in power?

If in three years we're reading very well written insider pieces on how much of an organizational disaster Mike Shanahan was and how he limited Raheem Morris and Chris Forester from helping players reach their true potential and how much better of a person and football coach Jon Gruden is, just remember that the history is written by the people in power, and typically at the expense of the disposed.

And if we're not, I am quite happy that Mike Shanahan against all odds got this team to the playoffs.

True. For example, if the Native Americans had won the Indian Wars our team sure as hell wouldn't be named the Redskins.

But history hasn't been unkind to Vinny. He had his chance and he failed.

IMO, Mike Shanahan has used essentially the same scouting staff that Vinny had to achieve better results than Vinny did. For example, all of the Redskins' 2011 draftees, except Jenkins (who was on IR), were active for at least one game in the 2011-2012 season. That's eleven players. Vinny never did anything like that. The Skins also signed a good group of Free Agents in 2011.

I realize that wins and losses are the ultimate proof of competence for a pro football executive and that Mike Shanahan's teams haven't yet won as much as Vinny's teams did. Nevertheless, I believe that, with the personnel we had when MS took over, we were not talented or deep enough to contend. I also believe that we needed to get younger, as a team. MS is currently working to fix these problems which he inherited from Vinny.

With another productive FA period and draft this year, I'm hoping we can start winning and become contenders for years to come.

[NM Redskin]

Had no idea there are organizations like BLESTO.

[SmootSmack]

This is my fault. I should have titled this thread "How Organizational Communication Has Improved Under Shanahan and Allen"

[NC_Skins]

I see Tripp is on his Shanahan hate horse again.


Giddy up!!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I see Tripp is on his Shanahan hate horse again.


Giddy up!!

You didn't even read what I wrote, you just assumed this. And I'm glad to see I'm making an impact on your life.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You didn't even read what I wrote, you just assumed this. And I'm glad to see I'm making an impact on your life.

I read what you said.

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

At the end of the day, they've pretty much been the same guys for the last five years or so. If they're a good front office now, then they were a good front office before.

No impact on my life except a good laugh every now and then. Keep up the good work. :cheeky-sm

[tryfuhl]

It has seemed like we drafted better later in the draft.. when guys like Campbell and Brown's suggestions were being taken into consideration because they weren't sexy enough picks for Vinny to be concerned with.

[Ruhskins]

While it is good to see improvements, none of this will matter until all of this work results in wins for the franchise. I am glad to see the direction the team seems to be heading towards, and things are much better since the days of Cerrato. Still, MS has made a number of questionable calls running the franchise, and he started it all by doing the very thing that represented the flaw that was the previous front office: giving up picks for a washed up pro bowler.

I am not necessarily agreeing with GTripp, but in a way I understand where he is coming from.

[SmootSmack]

I'd take out the 12 picks over two years line because it's Cerratto did actually make several picks the two years he was in charge.

Otherwise, I agree.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'd take out the 12 picks over two years line because it's Cerratto did actually make several picks the two years he was in charge.

Otherwise, I agree.

Granted, he did trade down and acquire those 2nd rounders, in particular. Too bad on two out of the three (Thomas, Kelly) he didn't listen to Scott Campbell.

[That Guy]

hey, G, two quick things

first, as you know, draft results tend to lag 2-3 years, and I think if we kept the other pieces the same, our first 3 picks would show vast improvement this year.

second, without a good QB, it's all moot. failing to find a QB better than rex after this many seasons is a HUGE strike against this FO. If the QB is the most important spot to fill, and you've decide to go after priorities 6-10 instead, guess what? that's a major failing. You can talk about finding the right QB all day, I don't want to hear it - I WANT TO SEE IT.

If they whiff again and end up with another terrible record, it's going to be a real tough sell that these are the right people to run this thing and that they're NFL competent.

I liked the draft, I liked the mid level FAs, but that rex grossman was the best they could do is horrible.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by That Guy

hey, G, two quick things

first, as you know, draft results tend to lag 2-3 years, and I think if we kept the other pieces the same, our first 3 picks would show vast improvement this year.

second, without a good QB, it's all moot. failing to find a QB better than rex after this many seasons is a HUGE strike against this FO. If the QB is the most important spot to fill, and you've decide to go after priorities 6-10 instead, guess what? that's a major failing. You can talk about finding the right QB all day, I don't want to hear it - I WANT TO SEE IT.

If they whiff again and end up with another terrible record, it's going to be a real tough sell that these are the right people to run this thing and that they're NFL competent.

I liked the draft, I liked the mid level FAs, but that rex grossman was the best they could do is horrible.

I feel like I've been slower and more patient than most to criticize the quarterback situation. I, like you, think a lot of defenses for heading into season two with Rex Grossman and John Beck somehow after spending a second and fourth round pick to shore up the position are just complete bunk.

I have in the past advocated for putting the QB situation on the back burner while you build the rest of the team. I think, clearly, the Redskins haven't done a good job overall building the rest of the team up in the last two years but like you said, another good draft and things will probably get better in time. You can't just assume this upcoming draft class will fix all the wrongs of the last two years, but it certainly could.

In a lot of ways, the success of the 2011 draft is going to hinge on the 2012 draft. If we bomb in the 2012 draft, lose, and Shanahan gets fired, the next coach isn't going to come in saying things like he feels getting Jarvis Jenkins back is like having a top ten draft pick. I really like Hankerson, but he's going to have to prove the first round grade I gave him on the field this year. If he doesn't, there's no guarantee he'll get another chance in 2013.

I will never tire of talking about the future of the Washington Redskins. What I am tired of is people telling me things are different now. Just stop talking. Show me. Bring evidence or don't waste the time.

[That Guy]

what's really silly is how much better we'd be with jason campbell and carlos rogers vs rex and d hall. well, campbell may just be a lateral move, but he has a lot less "oh ..ish" moments.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by That Guy

what's really silly is how much better we'd be with jason campbell and carlos rogers vs rex and d hall. well, campbell may just be a lateral move, but he has a lot less "oh ..ish" moments.

Sure, if you wanted passes under 10 yards and a QB that had worse pocket presence than Rex Grossman. Campbell continously held the ball too long and never knew how to move around in the pocket worth a damn. He was called Captain Checkdown for a reason. The year he went to Oakland, guess which player I picked up in Fantasy Football? Yup, the Raiders tight end Zack Miller.(at the time) I knew exactly how those games were going to go. No yards to the WRs and mostly to the TE. I was right and he helped me win a ton of games by the way.

We aren't even going to go down the Carlos Rogers avenue again. Much like Haynesworth, Carlos can play when he decides to play. Since it's a contract year, he's playing his ass off for that big pay day. He never played like that while he was here.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Sure, if you wanted passes under 10 yards and a QB that had worse pocket presence than Rex Grossman. Campbell continously held the ball too long and never knew how to move around in the pocket worth a damn. He was called Captain Checkdown for a reason. The year he went to Oakland, guess which player I picked up in Fantasy Football? Yup, the Raiders tight end Zack Miller.(at the time) I knew exactly how those games were going to go. No yards to the WRs and mostly to the TE. I was right and he helped me win a ton of games by the way.

We aren't even going to go down the Carlos Rogers avenue again. Much like Haynesworth, Carlos can play when he decides to play. Since it's a contract year, he's playing his ass off for that big pay day. He never played like that while he was here.

I agree with your assessment Rogers' situation and honestly I am glad he is gone. No way he has the same production with us like he did with the 49ers. And he was pretty much gone.

In terms of Campbell, I don't know how much better we would have been with him, however I know that we would not have wasted a 2nd rounder on McNabb had MS kept him.