Griffin's impact on the off-season FA/draft

[Paintrain]

Now that we've solved the QB issue, our #1 priority is at WR. I've been hot and cold on Jackson, looking at his age and the big $$ he will command. As of now I'm cold.. I'd rather see us spend on Garçon and Royal at WR and draft Joe Adams or Brian Quick in the third. Our second biggest need, almost 1a now is a RT that can get to the second level on the run and anchor for the boot action. With RGIII we will be running whole lot more boot so the need is increased.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Now that we've solved the QB issue, our #1 priority is at WR.

I think it would be nice to upgrade the WR spot but I guess I'm the only one that doesn't see it as a need?

Gaffney had one of, if not, his most productive seasons.
I haven't heard too much about Hankerson's injury but I'm gonna assume he's coming back 100% healthy.
There are a finite number of targets and I don't want to hinder/stall the development of Hankerson by burrying him on the depth chart where he'll struggle to get 1st/2nd team practice reps much less game targets.

If you agree that injuries and a long ball challenged QB had a negative effect on the production of Moss and Armstong then its not unreasonable to view them as players talented enough put up these numbers:

Armstrong: 44 rec 871 yards 19.8 YPC

Moss: 93 catches for 1115 yards (both top 10)

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I think it would be nice to upgrade the WR spot but I guess I'm the only one that doesn't see it as a need?

Gaffney had one of, if not, his most productive seasons.
I haven't heard too much about Hankerson's injury but I'm gonna assume he's coming back 100% healthy.
There are a finite number of targets and I don't want to hinder/stall the development of Hankerson by burrying him on the depth chart where he'll struggle to get 1st/2nd team practice reps much less game targets.

If you agree that injuries and a long ball challenged QB had a negative effect on the production of Moss and Armstong then its not unreasonable to view them as players talented enough put up these numbers:

Armstrong: 44 rec 871 yards 19.8 YPC

Moss: 93 catches for 1115 yards (both top 10)

Well maybe that's where we differ. I don't think injuries and Grossman made a huge impact on our WR production last year, I just think we didn't have much talent there. You mentioned Gaffney who had a career season, you're right..at 31 years old. There's very limited upside there. I don't think he will match those numbers and really doubt he will ever exceed them.

Moss's numbers were impacted by his injuries, true, but when he was healthy he wasn't explosive, didn't threaten defenses and dropped way too many passes. I just think he's pretty much done. He had a great 2010 but for what we are paying him, he needs to replicate those numbers and I don't think he's still capable to do so.

I don't think Armstrong, Banks, Austin, Paul, Stallworth or Robinson are anything special. I'd like to keep Paul around because he may develop into a James Thrash type and Robinson for depth and maybe he develops into a deep threat. If we only returned Gaffney, Hankerson & Paul I would be perfectly ok with that.

In the red zone we have no targets from our WR corp. Hankerson is 'big' by our standards but he's barely 6'2, not a huge target and he's unproven. I think he will be a good player, perhaps very good but he will develop better with more threats around him.

I don't think we need a 'splash' player here.. I'd be thrilled with Garcon & Royal or Meachem. We've got enough other holes to fill we don't need to go crazy at this position but it does need significant focus.

I'll be happy if opening day features:
Garcon/Meachem
Hankerson
Royal
Gaffney
Paul
Draft pick or Robinson

I'd also be fine if we signed Jackson, but I don't think it would be our best use of the money..

Since this is already long, might as well tack on a few more thoughts:
-Forget Nicks and Grubbs.. They are not good scheme fits nor is it like Shanny to pay big money to interior linemen. More than likely is someone from Houston (Myers or Briesel) who knows the scheme and can solidify the middle with Steiger and Chester..
-Don't be surprised to see us add a feature type back in FA or in the 3rd round. What about Helu?? Shanny has called him on a few occassions a nice change of pace back and he wasn't really drafted to be a 250-300 carry guy. He's not built for that..
-After WR is taken care of, RT is the next big fill.. Anthony Collins or Levi Brown could be a big play here.. If they fix this spot, our offense could take a big leap..
-Don't be shocked if Fletcher doesn't return. He's looking to get PAID and we may be able to get close to his production and save about 10 years. It would suck to lose him but if the defense can get younger for the same price without a huge dropoff it's the smart thing to do.
-While I'd love Terrell Thomas, it's more likely we're looking for nickel type backs than a starter. Just spent big on Wilson last year and Hall will be tough to release. They will probably go with the logic if the offense is better, the secondary will improve because teams will have to throw more and create turnover opportunities.

[30gut]

BTW-Good post, I agree with a lot of what you wrote and understand and agree with many of your points.
But forgive how unseemly this post looks.
I though I should respond to the separate points you made to prevent them from being all jumbled together.

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Well maybe that's where we differ. I don't think injuries and Grossman made a huge impact on our WR production last year, I just think we didn't have much talent there. You mentioned Gaffney who had a career season, you're right..at 31 years old. There's very limited upside there. I don't think he will match those numbers and really doubt he will ever exceed them.

Grossman was dead last in the NFL throwing past 20 yards with a passer rating of 25.8.
Undoubted Rex had a negative effective on the production of the WRs.
Armstrong went from 19.8 YPC for close to 800 yards to virtually nothing.

I agree that there is limited upside to Gaffney, didn't imply that there was upside nor that he would match or exceed his numbers.
But, the fact remains that he was productive in this offense.

Moss's numbers were impacted by his injuries, true, but when he was healthy he wasn't explosive, didn't threaten defenses and dropped way too many passes. I just think he's pretty much done. He had a great 2010 but for what we are paying him, he needs to replicate those numbers and I don't think he's still capable to do so.

Explosive is subjective, Moss has been used a lot in the slot therefore his deep chances have gone down.
Tana's 'drops' have always been overstated.

Just 2 years ago Tana was top 10 in catches then he breaks his hand and he's done? I just don't follow that logic.

Wouldn't you agree that breaking a hand is a major injury that has an adverse effect when your job is based on catching a ball?

I don't think Armstrong, Banks, Austin, Paul, Stallworth or Robinson are anything special. I'd like to keep Paul around because he may develop into a James Thrash type and Robinson for depth and maybe he develops into a deep threat. If we only returned Gaffney, Hankerson & Paul I would be perfectly ok with that.

I'm not sure what you mean by special?
Armstrong proved that when healthy and playing with a QB that has a good deep ball can be a deep threat to the tune of 19.8 YPC I don't know but to me that's something.
19.8 YPC isn't a fluke.

I don't see how losing Moss improves the WR corps, especially for a team that uses and will likely use even more 3 and 4 wide sets.
Building a solid WR corps is essential in those packages.
Look at the Packers for example they still have Donald Driver as part of their WRs corps and I'm sure we can agree that Moss is currently better then Driver?
I don't see how losing Moss would do anything to improve the WRs as a unit.

In the red zone we have no targets from our WR corp.

I disagree with this.
I think a more accurate statement is we don't target our WR much in the RZ.
But I clearly recall Armstrong catching a fade in the Giants game #1.
And I've seen Moss catch a quick slant or fadestop/comeback for TDs.

Hankerson is 'big' by our standards but he's barely 6'2, not a huge target and he's unproven. I think he will be a good player, perhaps very good but he will develop better with more threats around him.

Hankerson just needs to develop, we don't know what he'll become and I think the team needs to find out.
And pushing him down the depth chart only makes his development more difficult.

I don't think we need a 'splash' player here.. I'd be thrilled with Garcon & Royal or Meachem. We've got enough other holes to fill we don't need to go crazy at this position but it does need significant focus.

Garcon had the benefit of being a 2nd or 3rd option in already potent passing offense and yet his production has yet to match Tana who's played in rather difficult circumstances by comparison.
I agree that Royal would be a nice addition to the WRs group.

I'd also be fine if we signed Jackson, but I don't think it would be our best use of the money.

I would love it if we signed Jackson but not at the expense of significantly upgrading the RT spot.

-Don't be surprised to see us add a feature type back in FA or in the 3rd round. What about Helu?? Shanny has called him on a few occassions a nice change of pace back and he wasn't really drafted to be a 250-300 carry guy. He's not built for that..

I think there is almost zero chance they go after a FA RB that seems completely counter to Mike/Bobby Turner's RB MO.
I do agree that at some point they will draft a RB as a value pick.
But I don't think it will mean anything negative about Helu or Royster; they just like to draft RBs.
I think Hightower, Helu and Royster can all run effectively in Bobby Turner's system.

-Don't be shocked if Fletcher doesn't return. He's looking to get PAID and we may be able to get close to his production and save about 10 years. It would suck to lose him but if the defense can get younger for the same price without a huge dropoff it's the smart thing to do.

Oh, I'll be shocked if London doesn't return and I disagree he's looking to get paid.
He's a savvy player that understands his market value, he'll be looking for a fair deal.
I completely disagree that we'll be able to get close to Fletcher's production because 1 he's a beast and equally as important he's one of the few true leaders on the team and he's the leader of the teams best unit.