Redskins vs. Bengals Post Game Reaction

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

You and some others who post here just don't get it when it comes to exposing RGIII to a pounding in run option offense. So I'm going to try to educate you about the major points that I think jdc65 was trying to make.

Yes. Please, I am in need of education. You, and others with a similar need to educate, are clearly one step away from an NFL coaching job so arguments counter to your assumptions must simply be made by the blind and uninformed. Please - share your particular brand of brilliance.

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Point 1: RGIII is by far the most important player on this team for the future, not necessarily the present, of this franchise.

Point 2: RGIII must be protected as much as possible from a serious, possibly career threatening or career limiting injury because of his extraordinary value to the future of this franchise.

You left out Point 3: In it's current state, the Skins O-Line cannot provide consistent protection for a 7 step drop and would be troubled even in a 5 step drop scheme. In a traditional offense, RGIII would be exposed to brutal blind side hits every time he drops back to pass. Given the state of our line, our running game would be ineffective and, as such, play action would have a limited ability to slow down the rush. Without the ability to manufacture points through the option, we would be playing from behind often allowing opposing D's to pin back their ears against our already overmatched line. Even using his athleticism to create time, traditional scrambling would expose him to hits by LB's or DB's w/ a running head start at him and/or hits similar to the ones taken while running the designed option.

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

If I were in Dan Snyder's shoes, I would make an exception in the case of RGIII and I would "interfere" with Mike Shanahan's coaching decision to use RGIII in a run-oriented offense. I would tell him to cut it out. There is no way I would let Shanahan risk the future of my franchise in trying to beat the Bengals or any other team this season. Shanahan would simply need to find another way to win or I would fire him. That's how strongly I feel about this issue.

Hi Vinny! Yup, overriding the coach's authority can lead to nothing but long term success for players.

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Surely, you must realize that, in defending the run option that a defender is always assigned to tackle the QB. Only the Skins opponents are not just trying to bring down RGIII - they are trying to crush him, to punish him as much as they possibly can. It is only a matter of time before RGIII is seriously hurt when running these types of plays. This is not Baylor. It is the NFL, where the big boys play.

Because during a traditional pass play, w/out the option, the entire DL is not "trying to crush him, to punish him as much as they possibly can[.]" Insanity.

The option has one DL assigned hit the QB. True enough - at the same time, the hit generally can be seen coming and RGII has been very good about bracing for such hits. Additionally, the option has been successful in (1) manufacturing points; (2) slowing down the rush in both passing off the option and in the traditional drop backs; and (3) limiting the number of tacklers hitting RGIII on any running play or scramble b/c, just as they must account for RGIII, given his ability to read the entire field, the defenders cannot sell out to converge on him.

I am not a coach, I am Joe schmoe watching an offense that doesn't work like a traditional drop back/play action passing game. At the same time, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the hits RGIII is exposed to are different than the hits he would be exposed to in a traditional offense.

It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to see RGIII is comfortable in the offense and adapting to NFL speed within it. As opposed to being pounded into the dirt time and time again in a drop back offense, and gaining neither confidence or adapting to the violence, RGIII is getting to play the game he is used to, taking hits in a manner he is accustomed to. To many young QB's get gun-shy, start getting happy feet, lose their confidence and have their careers cut-short by being forced playing both an unfamiliar offense on a bad team where they get hit every drop back. Once they start hearing feet, most never recover. Ever.

To poor uneducated me, the offensive design makes the best use of our currently configured O-line and creates an opportunity for RGIII to succeed now and in the future. You don't. I completely understand your points just as I have completely understood others with similar positions ... no need to educate me further. I understand the risks created by this offense and disagree that, without entirely writing off this season, they are greater than those incurred by inserting RGIII into a traditional NFL offense.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Yes. Please, I am in need of education. You, and others with a similar need to educate, are clearly one step away from an NFL coaching job so arguments counter to your assumptions must simply be made by the blind and uninformed. Please - share your particular brand of brilliance.



You left out Point 3: In it's current state, the Skins O-Line cannot provide consistent protection for a 7 step drop and would be troubled even in a 5 step drop scheme. In a traditional offense, RGIII would be exposed to brutal blind side hits every time he drops back to pass. Given the state of our line, our running game would be ineffective and, as such, play action would have a limited ability to slow down the rush. Without the ability to manufacture points through the option, we would be playing from behind often allowing opposing D's to pin back their ears against our already overmatched line. Even using his athleticism to create time, traditional scrambling would expose him to hits by LB's or DB's w/ a running head start at him and/or hits similar to the ones taken while running the designed option.



Hi Vinny! Yup, overriding the coach's authority can lead to nothing but long term success for players.



Because during a traditional pass play, w/out the option, the entire DL is not "trying to crush him, to punish him as much as they possibly can[.]" Insanity.

The option has one DL assigned hit the QB. True enough - at the same time, the hit generally can be seen coming and RGII has been very good about bracing for such hits. Additionally, the option has been successful in (1) manufacturing points; (2) slowing down the rush in both passing off the option and in the traditional drop backs; and (3) limiting the number of tacklers hitting RGIII on any running play or scramble b/c, just as they must account for RGIII, given his ability to read the entire field, the defenders cannot sell out to converge on him.

I am not a coach, I am Joe schmoe watching an offense that doesn't work like a traditional drop back/play action passing game. At the same time, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the hits RGIII is exposed to are different than the hits he would be exposed to in a traditional offense.

It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to see RGIII is comfortable in the offense and adapting to NFL speed within it. As opposed to being pounded into the dirt time and time again in a drop back offense, and gaining neither confidence or adapting to the violence, RGIII is getting to play the game he is used to, taking hits in a manner he is accustomed to. To many young QB's get gun-shy, start getting happy feet, lose their confidence and have their careers cut-short by being forced playing both an unfamiliar offense on a bad team where they get hit every drop back. Once they start hearing feet, most never recover. Ever.

To poor uneducated me, the offensive design makes the best use of our currently configured O-line and creates an opportunity for RGIII to succeed now and in the future. You don't. I completely understand your points just as I have completely understood others with similar positions ... no need to educate me further. I understand the risks created by this offense and disagree that, without entirely writing off this season, they are greater than those incurred by inserting RGIII into a traditional NFL offense.

Seriously m8, I know you are a smart guy, but trying to argue just for the sake of arguing.................

You cannot sit there and spin it that RG3 is just as safe running the double and triple option than if he weren't. You cannot make the arguement that having 11 or more rushes per game with a 210 lb 6'1'' QB is smart if you are thinking about breaking in the rookie slow and steady. RG3 is getting absolutely CRUSHED out there, and noone can say he isn't. Yes we are not coaches, but it doesn't take a coach to see that one of these times, he isn't getting up if this continues week in and week out. We paid a RIDICULOUS amount to get this guy, seriously. Just look at the Nationals and Strasburg. They won't let the guy throw over 150 innings. Its called protecting your investment. RG3 isn't bulletproof, and has had some injuries in the past. It would be foolish to think that at this current pace, he can finish out a season healthy and just fine.

Just saying that the coaches are really rolling the dice, after we gave up two additional #1's and a #2. Thats alot to risk to have your 210 lb rookie QB be your qb, as well as your rushing threat, taking on MLB's and 265 lb defensive ends every other play.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Seriously m8, I know you are a smart guy, but trying to argue just for the sake of arguing.................

You cannot sit there and spin it that RG3 is just as safe running the double and triple option than if he weren't. You cannot make the arguement that having 11 or more rushes per game with a 210 lb 6'1'' QB is smart if you are thinking about breaking in the rookie slow and steady. RG3 is getting absolutely CRUSHED out there, and noone can say he isn't. Yes we are not coaches, but it doesn't take a coach to see that one of these times, he isn't getting up if this continues week in and week out. We paid a RIDICULOUS amount to get this guy, seriously. Just look at the Nationals and Strasburg. They won't let the guy throw over 150 innings. Its called protecting your investment. RG3 isn't bulletproof, and has had some injuries in the past. It would be foolish to think that at this current pace, he can finish out a season healthy and just fine.

Just saying that the coaches are really rolling the dice, after we gave up two additional #1's and a #2. Thats alot to risk to have your 210 lb rookie QB be your qb, as well as your rushing threat, taking on MLB's and 265 lb defensive ends every other play.

Look, I am not suggesting RGIII is not getting hit - a lot - and reading Keim this week, it is likely he is getting hit more than he would in a normal drop back set. At the same time, while their is risk from this, I also see the benefit from having him run the option. You, and others, seem to (1) think that their is no benefit from running the option offense; and/or (2) if any benefit exists, it is far outweighed by the risk posed to RGIII's long term health.

As to (1), I dispute it for all the reasons previously stated by myself and others.

As to (2), while I originally strongly disagreed with this, I am not as sure of it now. I still think the option offense is the right thing now for RGIII, but believe we need to find a way to cut down on his hits. According to KEim, he took 10 hits while running or w/out the ball while running the option including one solid hit. (At the same time, he was sacked six times and hit passing 11 times - the bottom line is, with our line, he is going to be hit a lot). That number needs to go down, how? not sure. Trashing the offensive design and starting from ground zero, however, strikes me as not the best plan either.