Around the NFL...Week 4 Style

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Would you say the same for Haynesworth? Not to say Shanahan has been a bust but he isn't exactly absolved from criticism either. The jury is still out but yeah

Well, Shanahan's salary would suggest that he's been a pretty big bust in Washington.

I mean, if he came in with mediocre expectations, and had two losing seasons but the team got younger and drafted well, then fine, maybe there is a silver lining in all the losing.

But he was hired to win early, long, and often. And all that's happened is losing, losing, and more losing.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Matty do you not see any reasoning in the fact that shanny should not be loved by skins fans UNTIL he wins? I see alot of the same people that praise shanny now say things like gibbs shouldnt have come back. Gibbs went to the playoffs twice Shanny gets alot of love here because of his past success. How come it was so easy to overlook gibbs past success?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Matty do you not see any reasoning in the fact that shanny should not be loved by skins fans UNTIL he wins? I see alot of the same people that praise shanny now say things like gibbs shouldnt have come back. Gibbs went to the playoffs twice Shanny gets alot of love here because of his past success. How come it was so easy to overlook gibbs past success?

There is no objective argument in favor of the job Mike Shanahan has done here. None. Just people who don't yet want to admit they were wrong.

Sorry if you're still holding out hope, but it's the truth.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

There is no objective argument in favor of the job Mike Shanahan has done here. None. Just people who don't yet want to admit they were wrong.

Sorry if you're still holding out hope, but it's the truth.

I agree. Im still holding out hope as im sure you are. We are skins fans. But this is theee worst three year run according to wins and losses ( which i thought is what a teams success was based on) in a long time.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by punch it in

I agree. Im still holding out hope as im sure you are. We are skins fans. But this is theee worst three year run according to wins and losses ( which i thought is what a teams success was based on) in a long time.

I am still holding out hope that Shanny turns it around. But it's irrational hope at this point. It's not based on logic or reason or any on field evidence from the last three years.

It's just me being a fan.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I am still holding out hope that Shanny turns it around. But it's irrational hope at this point. It's not based on logic or reason or any on field evidence from the last three years.

It's just me being a fan.

Oh my God im not alone! Thank you GTripp! I am not an uber pessimist or an uber optimist. This place is filled with both. It seems like you have to be one or the other so that after game day you can say i told you so to one side or the other. Lol. It is nice to know that there are others who root for the team without the rose colored glasses but yet with hope based solely on the fact that - well because were skins fans and we have no choice.

[Chico23231]

This franchise wasnt ready to win when Shanny arrived. This franchise had bottomed out, the second year of Zorn proved it without a doubt. The second half of that season was the worst the team had ever played, yes worse the Spurrier era, since Ive been alive. The roster with it contracts was years away, no disputing it.

There is no argument Vinny and Danny ran the team into the ground and the roster was terrible. Terrible is a flat out understatement, the roster was horrible. Haynesworth is the biggest bust of the FA era. Look at the size of dollars vs play. Look at where he went afterwards and did NOTHING. Its no disputing it, worst FA signing ever.

To down play what Shanny did in winning in Denver and win 2 superbowl is insane. 2 SUPERBOWLS. Think: Won 2 superbowls.
People must have forgot what the Denver franchise was at that time.

[SmootSmack]

People hold onto this myth that all these teams bring in a new coach, jump instantly from "worst to first" and sustain it. That's rarely ever true. It often takes years of building up the roster and often the staff that does the leg work isn't around to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I love, love, love Gibbs and what he did both times here. But particularly the second time he didn't build the roster to win anything more than "now"

Three years ago Redskins fans complained we had no young talent at QB, no youth or depth at OL, no franchise QB, slow and old defensive line, no legit #1 WR, no draft picks.

We've got those things. And we should benefit long term from these moves. But since they aren't all Pro Bowlers an we're not coming off an NFC championship I guess they're all losers

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

People hold onto this myth that all these teams bring in a new coach, jump instantly from "worst to first" and sustain it. That's rarely ever true. It often takes years of building up the roster and often the staff that does the leg work isn't around to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I love, love, love Gibbs and what he did both times here. But particularly the second time he didn't build the roster to win anything more than "now"

Three years ago Redskins fans complained we had no young talent at QB, no youth or depth at OL, no franchise QB, slow and old front office, no legit #1 WR, no draft picks.

We've got those things. And we shoukd benefit long term from these moves. But since they aren't all Pro Bowlers an we're not coming off an NFC championship I guess they're all losers

boom roasted

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

People hold onto this myth that all these teams bring in a new coach, jump instantly from "worst to first" and sustain it. That's rarely ever true. It often takes years of building up the roster and often the staff that does the leg work isn't around to enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I love, love, love Gibbs and what he did both times here. But particularly the second time he didn't build the roster to win anything more than "now"

Three years ago Redskins fans complained we had no young talent at QB, no youth or depth at OL, no franchise QB, slow and old defensive line, no legit #1 WR, no draft picks.

We've got those things. And we should benefit long term from these moves. But since they aren't all Pro Bowlers an we're not coming off an NFC championship I guess they're all losers

See but there you go. Nobody is saying there all losers. Why such extremes? Im simply saying that im not going to crown shanny the savior of the franchise UNTIL he wins. I have never said he wasnt great for winning two superbowls. I clearly pointed that out a couple posts ago when i was comparing him to gibbs 2.0. I also fully acknowledge the damage vinny did to this team but it has been three years and what i see now is a team with a great qb and a couple of weapons on offense. Alfred morris looks like a real find. A defense and special teams that are in a complete shambles and an oline that is one injury away from being very poor. So i have two questions for you that i hope will be answered based on what you think and not with sarcastic responses that make it seem like shanny is a pos because he didnt win three superbowls and we dont have pro bowlers at every position.
1)do you think the teams gibbs took to the playoffs were 6 wins better than what we have today?
2) it is year three - what year do you expect for us to field a relevant team that wins more than it loses (notice again that i did not say field the greatest team in the history of the nfl)?

[skinsfaninok]

I think the only coach we all agreed on was Gibbs, and that's just because he's a legend! I actually thought Marty was a good fit and would have made us a contender like he did everywhere else. Dan just had the quick trigger on that one

[SmootSmack]

Plenty of people do say MS is a prick, a liar, a fraud who only ever won because of Elway and Davis.

1. Why 6 wins? Am I missing something? Anyhow, yes I do believe those teams were much better suited for short term success.

2. I expected and still do around .500 this year and a winning record and playoffs by next year that would continue with regularity after that

[SmootSmack]

This is the biggest reason I didn't want Shanahan here, because too many people would think "well damn he should just win here instantly"

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Plenty of people do say MS is a prick, a liar, a fraud who only ever won because of Elway and Davis.

1. Why 6 wins? Am I missing something? Anyhow, yes I do believe those teams were much better suited for short term success.

2. I expected and still do around .500 this year and a winning record and playoffs by next year that would continue with regularity after that

I think 8-8 is realistic and if we do only win 5 games then maybe we would have a problem but I am a Ms fan and still support the move.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I think the only coach we all agreed on was Gibbs, and that's just because he's a legend! I actually thought Marty was a good fit and would have made us a contender like he did everywhere else. Dan just had the quick trigger on that one

And Okie contrary to the backlash im taking for offering up the opinion that maybe shanny isnt doing a good job i do believe he was / is / could be again a great coach. Maybe the problem lies elswhere - his oc and dc - just dumb luck? I dont know. Im certainly not a debbie downer or a pessimistic skins fan. I do realize whole heartedly the damage that was done to the fabric of our team by vinny. I guess it just bothers me slightly that shanallen and this new regime are being hailed as saviors when they havent saved anything. Im not saying they wont im saying they havent yet so can we hold back on the thank you letters until they do. Can wr reserve judgement until i see it translates into wins. Why does that put me in the doom and gloom category? Lol