The legacy of 'W'?

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by angryssg

Quite true, and we need a gross National Product other than Entertainment.

Originally Posted by jsarno

Yup, and we have nothing right now. I just don't understand why we don't use corn. It makes no sense. And if I were the government, I'd grow, produce, manufacture weed. We would create jobs, reduce crime, and severely reduce taxes with it's revenue.

We do have airplanes and defense equipment. Although I am not certain, a very large percentage of the world's aircraft is probably produced here. The same is probably true for defense equipment. Both industries are very lucrative as well.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

We do have airplanes and defense equipment. Although I am not certain, a very large percentage of the world's aircraft is probably produced here. The same is probably true for defense equipment. Both industries are very lucrative as well.

I didn't even think about that, that is very true. However, we don't sell our good stuff to everybody else.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by angryssg

We shall see, but I am not holding my breath.

I am...cough cough...LOL.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

We do have airplanes and defense equipment. Although I am not certain, a very large percentage of the world's aircraft is probably produced here. The same is probably true for defense equipment. Both industries are very lucrative as well.

Very true...we just need to rely on something else for our fuel. Obviously, even jacking the price to unreasonable amounts doesn't even slow us down on consumption...we need another option.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1

Congrats on all accomplishments. I'm very sorry about your daughter and admire you for your skills and attitude.

Thank you.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by saden1

I would totally vote for him but he's not going to make it out of the Republican primaries and he said if he doesn't he wouldn't run as an independent. Basically, I'm not going to be able to vote for him.

Obama on the other hand has a realistic chance of winning the primary. We'll just have to see if he can beat Hilary.

As for Gore, his time is up. I don't get why the fuck people want him to run. That ship has sailed. Time to move on.

I'm glad to see you come over to the Obama camp. He's definitely within striking distance of Hillary.

By the way, don't be suprised to see Obama and Edwards on the same ticket.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by jsarno

That's because Obama is about as black as Brunell. What percentage african american is he anyway?
Sad thing is he won't get the proper recognition cause you know that KKK type people that live in the deep south could care less what he has to say

I know you're not trying to be racist here, but what does that mean, he's as black as Brunell? Senator Obama, and you may know this already, but his father is from Kenya and his mother is from Kansas; Both are deceased. But in our society, particularly America, if you're just a tacit black, you're considered all black. No one's really looking at him as a half white candidate or a mixed candidate. As far as America is concerned, he's just as black as, let's say, Bernie Mack!!

Also, when you look at his work prior to joining the state and U.S. Senate, respectively, for three years he earned a paltry salary as a community organizer on the south side of Chicago. Now I'm not sure if you've ever been to the south side of Chi-town, but it's the hood all day long! My point is, he's not just another black candidate with a nice pretty resume from Harvard, he actually has some dirt under his fingernails working with the black community and he has strong ties to the black church as well. I only highlight these points because, in my mind, that settles the issue of his "blackness", if you will. The media has tried to spin that question a few times - Is he black enough or is white America ready for a black President?

I partially disagree with the assumption that folks in the deep south could care less about what he's saying. I don't think the vast majority of voters in the south are looking at things in that context. Like Saden, I've been working with the campaign here in D.C. (volunteering) and the response, at least in this region, has been pretty positive. It's also worth noting that parts of the state of Illinois are just as segragated and backwards as parts of the south. Yet he proved to be effective enough to overcome racial barriers there to become Senator.

I feel Americans are ready to unite the country at all costs, and they're looking for leadership right now; Whether it's a Latino, a female, a black, or caucasion. I'll go a step further, they're not overly concerned with party affiliation as they have been in the past. I think when you look at the overwhelming response people have had to both Senator Obama and Hillary, it's a good indication of how people are willing to break from the status quo and move the country foward. Americans are hungry for new leadership.

I'm not trying to "jump on you" or be racially insensitive because that's not my stick, but I think often times we allow the media to feed us images of a candidate and we're really in the dark about who they really are and what they're really about. Either of his books are good reads and pretty insightful about him as an individual and a candidate.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I feel Americans are ready to unite the country at all costs, and they're looking for leadership right now; Whether it's a Latino, a female, a black, or caucasion. I'll go a step further, they're not overly concerned with party affiliation as they have been in the past. I think when you look at the overwhelming response people have had to both Senator Obama and Hillary, it's a good indication of how people are willing to break from the status quo and move the country foward. Americans are hungry for new leadership.

Apparently we're not ready for a Mormon though. Really though, for all our forward thinking and championing of democracy here it's remarkable how backwards we are when it comes to our pool of leadership candidates, compared to the rest of the world.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Apparently we're not ready for a Mormon though. Really though, for all our forward thinking and championing of democracy here it's remarkable how backwards we are when it comes to our pool of leadership candidates, compared to the rest of the world.

You're right on that one. Do you think we're more divided along racial or religous lines?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You're right on that one. Do you think we're more divided along racial or religous lines?

That's a really good question. I think when it comes to politics, probably religious lines. I'd have to think about that one

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

That's a really good question. I think when it comes to politics, probably religious lines. I'd have to think about that one

The reason I ask is because your comment on Romney is interesting, yet true.

I think, initially anyway, that we're more ready for a black or female president than a Mormon. Interesting to say the least.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

The reason I ask is because your comment on Romney is interesting, yet true.

I think, initially anyway, that we're more ready for a black or female president than a Mormon. Interesting to say the least.

You hear that story about the guy who recently refused to shake Romney's hand "because he's a Mormon" Had that been Obama and "I refuse to shake hands with a Black man" that story would be everywhere. Maybe it's because Mormons don't have as strong a voice nationally, but still I find it interesting that there was no real outcry over that.

When are the next debates by the way?

[saden1]

We know one thing about Romney, he won't win Massachusetts. Man, he whales on the state that elected him as governor. There are certain thing you aught not do and that's trash your own state.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You hear that story about the guy who recently refused to shake Romney's hand "because he's a Mormon" Had that been Obama and "I refuse to shake hands with a Black man" that story would be everywhere. Maybe it's because Mormons don't have as strong a voice nationally, but still I find it interesting that there was no real outcry over that.

When are the next debates by the way?

Yeah, that would have spread like wild fire had it been Obama.

My thoughts on the question of Mormonism is that, perhaps, when we look at the Constitution and, more importantly, the patriarchs, they were either Christian or espoused some type of religious beliefs. You know, we have some precendent there, some history with "Christianity". As progressive and as forward thinking we have become over the centuries, Mormonism, while accepted, probably isn't perceived as the faith that invested in the forging and the forming of the Union. Besides Brigham Young, I can't think of any modern day Mormon that has made a significant impact on the country.

People say well, I'm not religious so I don't care one way or another. Again, I don't think it's entirely a matter of him being religious or holdng up God, though I think that's a big part of it, I think it's a matter of people not knowing much about this "faith of yours." Yes, they teach a lot of the same values and beliefs and even scriptures, but it's almost perceieved as it's own little sect or society of people and not a part of the mainstream.

I welcome anyone to help us us on this one. But I think in general people dont' separate individuals from their faith. And if people are a tad bit skeptical about Mormonism, which they are, then they're probably going to be hesitant on Romney too.

I think the next debate for the Repubs is June 30th in Iowa. I think the candidates are growing weary of dabating with such a wide field of candidates.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

I went to a Mormon church as an adolescent for a few years with my best friend at the time, who was a Mormon.

I have been to churches of several different Christian faiths, and that church was not much different than any other. In fact, it was a little more focused and I enjoyed it more than any other church I had previously been to.

Mormons believe that Christ was the savior, and the Bible is a large part of their teachings. They just have one additional book: The Book of Mormon. During my time attending that church, I didn't ever hear or see anything that was uniquely "Mormon" -- except that communion was with water, instead of wine. Maybe I would have noticed something else, if I had paid closer attention (remember, I was an adolescent).

That said, there is definitely an attitude of disdain surrounding the Mormon faith. I know because I have encountered it on several occasions. Many people focus on polygamy and their strict dietary habits. However, none of the hundreds of Mormons who attended my church had more than one wife, and their diets were average for the most part -- albeit a little healthier. That's not to say there aren't Orthodox Mormons, and fanatics, but every faith has them. I believe the attitude is mostly just due to ignorance.

I think it'll be difficult for a Mormon candidate to get elected. It's not that easy to overcome ignorance.

*I'm not an expert on the Mormon faith, so I could be a little off on some details*