Ramsey

[Hail to the Redskins]

You know... I have to completely disagree with the curmudgeon...

Ramsey might be just an average QB in the NFL... but "substantially sub=par"?? Let's recap last 2 years where he played under Steve (every one blasts me because they don't REALLY know football) Spurrier's system... his numbers..

296-564, 3705 yds, 23 TDs, 17 INTS, 53 passes of 20yds+ .... and 48 SACKS!

Now... either Spurrier wasn't galastically stupid like everyone says or Ramsey is at LEAST and average NFL quarterback. I realize its been said before on this site a million times... but honestly, if you look back through NFL history at the best QBS of all-time... their numbers through 564 passes would be below these numbers. And again let me reiterrate that these are "Spurrier-coached" numbers which means he was getting beat up pretty regularly because of our "sub-par" offensive line... enough to make ANY young QB gun-shy.

As far as today goes... he was VERY accurate on the short passes (watching him was like watching Joe Montana after having to sit through Brunell's ducks, even on short routes), he just has to get comfortable enough to where he doesnt feel like he has to force a ball in deep... he needs just a little more loft on those and let the reciever run under them... thats game-speed rust if u ask me... 53 passes over 20 yards the past 2 seasons proves that...

[VTSkins897]

i agree man ramsey is good. he's been in 2 systems now including one that might not have been very traditional as far as the nfl goes. but we're in a much worse position now than we were with spurrier offensively. spurrier had some loser as DC and i still think he'd do fine in the NFL... i guess thats off-topic...

the skins will not ever be decent unless we use who we gots. ramsey is a plenty good qb

[sportscurmudgeon]

Here is when you willknow that Patrick Ramsey is nor sub-par. You won't have to resort to yardage stats to justify his existence in the NFL.

ASk yourself this question: What is the team's won/loss record when he starts?

Now that losing record - and I guarantee you it is a losing record without going to look it up - is certainly not all his fault. But above average QBs can win some games that the rest of the team tries ot give away.

Really good QBs are ones that are feared around the league by defenive coordinators - not because of their yardage stats - because they win games by taking them over. Is Ramsey there yet?

Then there are the great QBs...

When you stop having to refer to Ramsey's stats and as a way to rub salve on your hurt feelings about the Redskins losing another game, that's when he will REALLY be a good QB. Until then, keep reveling in the stats as the losses pile up.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Here is when you willknow that Patrick Ramsey is nor sub-par. You won't have to resort to yardage stats to justify his existence in the NFL.

ASk yourself this question: What is the team's won/loss record when he starts?

Now that losing record - and I guarantee you it is a losing record without going to look it up - is certainly not all his fault. But above average QBs can win some games that the rest of the team tries ot give away.

Really good QBs are ones that are feared around the league by defenive coordinators - not because of their yardage stats - because they win games by taking them over. Is Ramsey there yet?

Then there are the great QBs...

When you stop having to refer to Ramsey's stats and as a way to rub salve on your hurt feelings about the Redskins losing another game, that's when he will REALLY be a good QB. Until then, keep reveling in the stats as the losses pile up.

It's late so I'm probably reading this wrong but are you essentially saying that Craig Krenzel at 3-0 (going into this weekend) is a good QB, better even than Ramsey? Who would you rather have?

[sportscurmudgeon]

No, I do not think Krenzel is any good.

The win over the Titans is an example of why. Thje offense generated all of 3 points. Krenzel had about 100 yards passing and a QB rating of 20 or so. The defense scored a TD on an interception return by a defensive lineman the special teams ascored a TD on a punt return. That gave the Bears 17 points and forced a tie and sent the gaem to OT.

In OT, the defense won the game with a safety.

That does not make Krenzel the hero or the guy who "won the game" I'd take Ramsey with his right arm in a sling before I'd take Krenzel.

[That Guy]

he looked better than last year as far as improving on his weaknesses, i think he should have been asked to do more than 4,000 hitches though...

it sucks that spurrier was able to put up 20 points fairly easily (compared to this year's struggles) with a lot less talent...

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

No, I do not think Krenzel is any good.

The win over the Titans is an example of why. Thje offense generated all of 3 points. Krenzel had about 100 yards passing and a QB rating of 20 or so. The defense scored a TD on an interception return by a defensive lineman the special teams ascored a TD on a punt return. That gave the Bears 17 points and forced a tie and sent the gaem to OT.

In OT, the defense won the game with a safety.

That does not make Krenzel the hero or the guy who "won the game" I'd take Ramsey with his right arm in a sling before I'd take Krenzel.

So what's your argument then? When someone brings up Ramsey's stats, you dismiss them and say it's the won-loss record that matters. Then when Krenzel is brought up, you dismiss his won-loss record.

I think we need to consider both the stats and the wins. The basic argument is Ramsey has put up some decent stats for a young QB. True he doesn't have the wins that you'd like to see, but as we can see from Krenzel, the team around you plays a big part in that.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Matty:

My point is that yardage stats by themselves are shallow and often misleading. Yesterday, the leading passer in the NFL in terms of yardage was Aaron Brooks; he lost. The second leading passer was Shaun King; he lost. the third highest was Marc Bulger; he lost.

QBs MAY accumulate gaudy stats by being in games where they have to throw a lot just to stay in the game. QBs can also accumulate gaudy stats by being in a "pass-happy offense" such as the one that Ramsey played in with Spurrier.

Ramsey is the best QB on the Redskins' roster at the moment and certainly his future is brighter than the other two guys. But, it is folly to say that he is a competent or even a quality QB as of the moment because he isn't. He has the physical tools to turn into one, but he isn't one yet. And if he does not improve a whole lot in the remaining games this year, then the Skins will go on another QB hunt in the off-season and we know how that story ends...

This Redskin team is much further away from being a contending team than a single player or two. Of the 22 starting positions, I think 8 are seriously in need of upgrading. I know that a lot of people here think that 20 of the present 22 starters will go to the Hall of Fame - along with several guys on the practice squad - but that is just not the case.

You are absolutely right; the team around Ramsey is part of the reason that he has put up a losing record so far in his career. But to absolve Ramsey from blame and to say that he "played well" yesterday is silly. He played an entire game and the Redskins scored ZERO touchdowns. Was that all his fault? Of course not. But as I said in another post, really good QBs can ovecome some of the limitations of the players around them and score points. Ramsey isn't there yet. I sure hope he does get there sometime in the next couple of months because if he doesn't there will be another expensive off-season QB acquisition in the wings...

[rickmmrr]

I thought he played well.

At first I complained about the play calling but after I had time to sleep on it I got the feeling that Gibbs is being patient with Ramsey and really working on getting his confidence back up. Working on the fundamentals , not making Ramsey take the entire game upon his shoulders. Getting the short passes down and slowly working on the middle and finally the long. (Something like that anyway.)

Handling him with kid gloves so to speak.

Did anyone else get that impression?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

I know that a lot of people here think that 20 of the present 22 starters will go to the Hall of Fame - along with several guys on the practice squad - but that is just not the case.

You seem to like saying this a lot. I don't know if it's just hyperbole on your part or if you truly believe that. If so, you're not giving other people on this board much credit. If someone says Ramsey should be our starter, McCants should be on the field more often and Betts should get some more carries they're not saying these guys are HOFers. We're just saying these are some of the guys we have on our team who we feel can help us win and have the potential to help us win for years to come

[redrock-skins]

We have two QBs that give us one extreme over the other. We have Ramsey who overthrows (but what an arm though) his receivers by a ton and Brunell, who can't reach his receivers with the long ball. We need to meet in the middle somewhere.

[Defensewins]

I have to agree with sportscurmudgeon, the Ramsey led offense scored 6 points. Lets not kid ourselves and say Ramsey is doing well. It is the lowest point total all year. While I think Ramsey is the way to go at this point in the season, he did not look smooth or confidant.

Smootsmack and Mattyk72 - It is funny that you are comparing Ramsey (3rd yea playerr /1st round pick) to a ROOKIE, 3rd string, fifth round pick. I guess that is the way Ramsey is playing. Like a rookie 5th round pick.

because he is certainly not playing like Brett Farve, P. Manning, Vick, Brees, Culpepper. Tom Brady, Brian Griese, Trent Green or Marc Bulger.

Even rookie Ben Roethlesberger is playing a million times better. I suprised to hear a loyal Ramsey fan on this websight say right now they would rather have Ramsey than Ben Roethlesberger. Really?
rookie

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by smootsmack

You seem to like saying this a lot. I don't know if it's just hyperbole on your part or if you truly believe that. If so, you're not giving other people on this board much credit. If someone says Ramsey should be our starter, McCants should be on the field more often and Betts should get some more carries they're not saying these guys are HOFers. We're just saying these are some of the guys we have on our team who we feel can help us win and have the potential to help us win for years to come

Smootsmack
You really have a short memory. I remember reading some pretty crazy posts about Ramsey and how incredibly talented our roster is. Now I am hearing the beep beep sound of some folks backing up.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Smootsmack
You really have a short memory. I remember reading some pretty crazy posts about Ramsey and how incredibly talented our roster is. Now I am hearing the beep beep sound of some folks backing up.

Talented is one thing, HOF is another. I'm probably just misinterpreting what SC is writing. But I mean I think Ramsey is talented, but he's raw and he needs to play to get better. And I think a lot of people here think the same thing.

[MTK]

I agree that Ramsey is a talented QB who needs work.

I saw some things from him yesterday that were encouraging to me. He got rid of the ball quickly and for the most part he was pretty accurate. He's had very little work in this offense and considering how badly he was struggling in the preseason, I thought yesterday's performance showed that he may be taking some steps in the right direction.

Under the circumstances with a hostile and very loud crowd, I thought he kept his cool and looked like a QB that Gibbs can work with and continue to develop.