Turnaround Time

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

turnaround is easy.

I bet teams like Oakland, Cleveland and Detroit would disagree.

We had a lot of issues from top to bottom from the previous "leadership" that were not easy to fix overnight. We had horrible contracts on the books with overpaid vets, missing draft picks left for a few years going forward and a roster that was assembled without a clear plan.

Coach Shanahan was probably right about it taking at least 5 years to turn this team around. He and Allen have made incredible progress without having much to work with talent-wise, pick-wise and then the salary cap hit. His second draft where he took us from having 2 picks in the first 4 rounds to a dozen picks overall was amazing to watch.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Good points all around.

I keep going back to the stat somewhere that an NFL players average career is about three years, it's kind of make it or break it in that three year window. And you see a ton of teams get turned around in about that time even if they started with crap e.g. the Lions who just beat us. Absolutely terrible team when Schwartz took over. So I think there's pretty good reasons to say three years is a good benchmark for a regime/HC/GM to show the world their definitely on the right track and improving year over year, though maybe not a contender. On the far end of the spectrum you have Pete Carroll and Seattle looking like contenders after just a couple years, but they started with some real solid talent like Gmanc said about the bears.

Detroit, really, has been rebuilding for years. Every year they would add more #1 draft picks. Almost like the situation with the 49ers. Seems like they had been adding different pieces to the puzzle for several seasons, it just took the right puzzle master (head coach) to know how the puzzle pieces fit together.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by BaltimoreSkins

From a Redskins POV I would argue we are still 17 million under the cap. We have had coaches who have tried to make better from very little. I don't think it was in this FO gameplan to be playing under the cap for this and last year. I think we will see what Shannahan and Allen anticipated for this team next year.

Exactly!

Add the injury to Robert as well. Without that, we were likely heading into the second round of the playoffs even with the cap situation.

I don't see Mike going anywhere anytime soon; but he has to keep this team fighting through this early season adversity, or all bets are off.

[mredskins]

If we are 0-4 come Monday morning I think the panic buttons are hit. Sunday is a must win at OAK.

[The Goat]

Nobody can deny the cap penalty hurt us. But that doesn't explain: undisciplined players; unprepared players (RG aside cuz that's different); horrible play-calling through most of Mike's tenure; horrible clock management; unmotivated and uninspired performances, with the exception of an 8 game streak last season.

I also take issue with the notion this team had no talent when Mike took over. The team gave up Zorn's last year and stats looked worse than they would otherwise be, but the defense we had in place prior to Mike's era was vastly superior to what he's conjured up. I don't think anybody can make an honest argument the other way. Yes, that defense was aged and needed additional players, but isn't that what Mike's done anyway? We've added a lot of players to the defense, and it sucks. Again, that's a staple of Mike's coaching/teams over the last decade.

But, I tend to agree with those who say give him the rest of the season IF AND ONLY IF this team starts to show better preparedness, discipline, motivation. IMO those things say everything about where a team is headed.

[skinsfaninok]

I've said this a bunch on here, I'm a MS guy but this is embarrassing. Again if we don't finish at least 8-8 he should be gone

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I've said this a bunch on here, I'm a MS guy but this is embarrassing. Again if we don't finish at least 8-8 he should be gone

What if...we finish below .500 but Kyle and Haslett leave after the season. Would you feel more optimistic with Mike grooming RG (alone) and an upgrade at DC ?

[skinsfaninok]

honestly No, because I don't think MS is doing a great job of getting these guys prepared every week. I mean these penalties and miscues are ridiculous. Just MO though.

[Chico23231]

Can anyone make an argument that haslett should stay through the bye?

[skinsfaninok]

^ if we shut out oakland sunday

[The Goat]

Sounds about right, total domination by the defense after three lousy showings. Otherwise, you almost have to say Haslett goes on general principle.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Can anyone make an argument that haslett should stay through the bye?

No, he should be gone now. How many chances do you give this guy? On paper our defense should be better, we played without Orakpo, Meriweather. Neild last year, we had Gomes and M. Williams. This year we picked Tapp. Jenkins. Amerson. Rambo, Barnett. Orakpo and Meriweather are back and the team is worse off. No more excuse.

By the way this too:

@TarikCSN: The #Redskins add G Troy Kropog to prax squad, according to NFL records. He replaces X. Nixon, who was signed by Colts. #RedskinsTalk

[Skinzman]

As to the original topic, I dont think there is a clear answer. Harbaugh in San Fran walked into a situation where he had a large talent pool. The players there refused to play for Singletary. There was no turnaround needed player wise. But I do believe that Shanny came into a terrible situation that was started prior to his arrival with Vinny. I never expected to win the first couple of years he was here. It wasnt until year 3 that I thought we at least had a chance, and that was mainly because we finally had a QB.

To many people who jump on Shanny were the same people who said he was stupid for passing on Gabbert and taking Kerrigan. I still think people are prematurely calling RG3 a bust because he is not playing to his potential now. I believe that he can ultimately be a damn good passer in this league.

To the whole DC situation. I would like to ask a few questions. With the whole tackling situation that we are having now. Does a new DC solve those? We are leading the league in yards after missed tackles, doesnt that mean that the players are being put into decent situations and arent getting the job done with tackling? How much can a DC really teach tackling, you either want to or you dont?

Im not sure whats going on with the defense. Maybe a change is in order to see if a new voice gets through to them. Orakpo missed how many tackles in the game last week? He was getting free shots on the RB of detroit and couldnt Bell to the ground. And when I say free shots, I mean from behind when he didnt even see him coming. If the answer is we need new players, how much does the cap penalty come into play on whether we could have accomplished that in the last couple of years?

I think so far that Shanny has done more good than bad. Far from perfect, but most are. He has missed on some draft picks (Leribius) but hit on others (Morris). I still wouldnt mind seeing Allen take over more of the player acquisition aspect and let Shanny do full time coaching. Although Shanny may balk at something like that. If he is left with that option and chooses to leave, so be it. I dont want him fired as of yet, but if he had to make that choice and chose to leave, I wouldnt shed a tear over it.

[CultBrennan59]

No rebuilding here. Changing maybe the offense at the end of the season? Possibly. Completely changing the defense from a 3-4 to a 4-3? No. Replacing coaches and players come seasons end? Definitely.

As far as this season and turning it around, until we learn to wrap up and bring a player down, we are going to keep losing games. Until Robert stops throwing picks and making stupid plays, like the slide he still hasn't learned as one example. We aren't winning games. Fact of the matter is, our opportunities to win the game were in our offenses hands. But Robert screwed up twice and Aldrick can't hold onto the ball. So until both sides of the ball fixes basic pee wee football mistakes, we are not winning another game. That I am assured of.

[JGisLordOfTheRings]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

I agree. You can't just look at 0-3 right now and say that this regime has reached its ceiling and been given a golden opportunity to have this team rebuilt. Nobody saw the big $36 million penalty coming, and the 'skins are reaping the benefit of that now. Mike Shanahan said it would take about five years to turn this team around, he's in year four. Give him one more year, and if successful - give him a one year extension. If the 'skins continue to improve and make the playoffs, then sign him to a bigger contract.

Coming from a doom and gloomer here, this is a great post.

Bravo.