Let's impeach the president.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by jdlea

Actually, Obama never agreed

What is your point?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by dmek25

so, you're right, and 80% of America is wrong?

Well, yes and no, but they just don't know any better. 95%+ of Americans are lazy and are easily persuadable. They don't like the fact that we are overseas fighting, (honestly who does?) and the Dems screaming "Bush lied" when it's not true, persuades them to take an even more aggressive stance. Dems cause problems, and offer NO solutions. Sorry if that is offensive.
At no time in history has one group of people agreed with sending troops overseas. There are always those that disagree with it. WW1, WW2 had a lot of people that didn't agree with it, but does that mean that we should have backed out? Absolutely not.
I'm sorry, but the Iraq mission is not done. I would never teach my kids to quit something they started because it got tough, and I appreciate the fact that we (USA) won't finish until the job is done, and we were flat out told that! There is absolutely no point in backing out now when the likely scenario would be that Iraq would fall back into their old ways and that makes all the lives lost all for not. So unless you can guarentee Iraq has changed for the best and won't go back to where they were, then we're not done.

[jsarno]

Angry, I am very impressed with your posts...I wanted to reply to all of them, but I'd be writing forever, and take up all sorts of posts. You've done a great job.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Well, yes and no, but they just don't know any better. 95%+ of Americans are lazy and are easily persuadable. They don't like the fact that we are overseas fighting, (honestly who does?) and the Dems screaming "Bush lied" when it's not true, persuades them to take an even more aggressive stance. Dems cause problems, and offer NO solutions. Sorry if that is offensive.
At no time in history has one group of people agreed with sending troops overseas. There are always those that disagree with it. WW1, WW2 had a lot of people that didn't agree with it, but does that mean that we should have backed out? Absolutely not.
I'm sorry, but the Iraq mission is not done. I would never teach my kids to quit something they started because it got tough, and I appreciate the fact that we (USA) won't finish until the job is done, and we were flat out told that! There is absolutely no point in backing out now when the likely scenario would be that Iraq would fall back into their old ways and that makes all the lives lost all for not. So unless you can guarentee Iraq has changed for the best and won't go back to where they were, then we're not done.

Why do we care if Iraq gets better or not? 87% of HS kids can't put it on the globe. Damn 17% can't place the US on the globe. The job will never be done man!!!!!!!! The Iraqis will fight on and on and on to get us out of there. Everywhere we intervene ends up worse off than before we messed with it. It is pretty sad when average Iraqis will look back to the Saddam regime as the "good old days". The war was based on a lie from day one, so why can't we just leave? We left Vietnam and it was a total disaster. Did the world end when the Commies took Saigon in '75? Iraq didn't have anything to do with 9/11 and we were good buddies with Hussein til April Glaspie in the summer of 1990 told Saddam we wouldn't do anything if he used force against the Kuwaitis, who were slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields
Every war this nation has fought since 1898 was based on one big damn lie that got us worked up in a war frenzy.

Spanish Amer War 1898: USS Maine supposedly sabotaged by Spain, but investigation blames design flaw that put gunpowed close to the boiler room. No sabotage, but the incident was enough to start a war before the investigation was even started.

World War I: A dumbass war fought by a bunch of intermarried arisocratic dynasties who were having a big family spat using millions of the little people as pawns. Christian Europe was essentially destroyed because of this stupidity and replaced with facism and communism, setting up the next war as we totally humiliated Germany, who in reality was only just as culpable as starting the whole thing as England, France, or Russia. This made damn sure Hitler would be an attractive candidate when Weimar was failing during the Depression. The lie in this was Wilson making it out to be some damn crusade for democracy, human rights, etc. Yeah it turned out pretty good didn't it.

World War II: Horrible sequel to the first dumbass world war, except that contrary to what he publicly said FDR always wanted it. Read Day of Deceit and New Dealer's War. FDR did everything in his power, even violating Neutrality Laws, to corner both Japan and Germany in a major war. THis is the only war of the lot that can have any degree of justification because of the belligerence of the axis, but our govt's actions didn't help matters either.

Korea: Atchinson excludes S Korea from the US Pacific Defense perimeter, giving the Reds the green light to invade. 3 years later th war ends exactly where it began at the 38th parallel, but with almost 40,000 American troops dead, just because some guy either deliberately, or accidently left S Korea off the table as an American interest.

Vietnam: Gulf of Tonkin incident never happend, but an inexperinced sonar guy thinks his ship is being attacked. Even though the US commander on the spot radioed that it was a false alarm, LBJ used it to get us involved in Vietnam. Yet another lie or misleading statement/non statement, this time over 50,00 US troops lose their lives. Vietnam fell eventually and did not affect US National Security

Gulf War I: Read above about April Glaspie. Saddam was our bulwark against the Islamic Revolution. He shot the crazy bastards, including AL Qaeda. Taking him out just let the crazies loose and now we are in one horrible bind.

Gulf War II: Bush lied about everything. Iraq could be swallowed up into hell and it would effect the US very little, but a ton of no bid private contractors are making a frigging killing off of this, not to mention Blackwater and their mercenary army.


Moral of the story? Maybe we should just worry about our own damn nation for a change and quit intervening in these 3rd world hellholes that do not have any impact either way on US National Security. We have too many problems here at home that need to be addressed. Also if you know you made a mistake are you going to continue making that mistake and letting things get worse? If we stay in Iraq things are only going to get worse. The Iraqis are going to fight forever to get us out of there. It is there country, their homes, their lives. Who are we to interfere in that? IF the Sunnis and Shiites start a civil war, that is their matter isn't it? Does it affect US National Security if Sunnis and Shiites are killing each other 10,000 miles from the US?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

87% of HS kids can't put it on the globe. Damn 17% can't place the US on the globe.

Wow, we have some dumb people in this world...hmmm, but I suppose we should listen to the majority and back out...yet they don't know where Iraq is....hmmmmmmmmmm.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Wow, we have some dumb people in this world...hmmm, but I suppose we should listen to the majority and back out...yet they don't know where Iraq is....hmmmmmmmmmm.

how long are we supposed to wait until Iraq is ready to govern their own country? 5 years? 10 years? some people want freedom, some do not. its that simple. are the Iraqi people willing to work for it? Saddam Hussein was a bad man. is it the United States job to rid the world of bad people? we have a bad one in Cuba, thats been ruling for 50 years. why not take him out? what about north Korea? Iran? this disaster that President Bush has pulled the U.S. into is nothing more, nothing less. all it did was rile up the middle east to the point that just about everyone over there, with the exception of Israel, has nothing but pure hatred for us. his plan was bad, and the execution of that plan has been worse. its time to pull out, and work on homeland security. i am not a quitter, but i realize when i am wrong, and do what it takes to correct my mistakes. this is the republicans biggest flaw. not willing to concede when they are wrong. and then willing to try and fix their mistakes. and i am neither dumb, nor lazy

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

What is your point?

Just pointing out that not everybody was convinced we needed to invade.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by dmek25

how long are we supposed to wait until Iraq is ready to govern their own country? 5 years? 10 years?

To borrow a phrase from Adlai Stephenson, "until hell freezes over, if that's what it takes."

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by jdlea

Just pointing out that not everybody was convinced we needed to invade.

I didn't say that did I?

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Did anyone catch the interesting debate between the Dem. Prez. candidates at Howard? I found it interesting that they all condemned the Bush administration for unilaterally intervening in Iraq and staying there despite the civil war between rival factions. Then, in response to the next question about Sudan, they all said we should intervene in Darfur even if we have to do it unilaterally (as China would veto any UN resolution authorizing force) in a conflict marred by civil strife between rival factions.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

To borrow a phrase from Adlai Stephenson, "until hell freezes over, if that's what it takes."

mean while, our health care system collapses, no new immigration policy, we go farther and farther into debt, and more and more American jobs get shipped over seas. how about president bush getting OUR house in order, before we play world police. and heres a quote from me, " to hell with Adlai Stevenson"

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Did anyone catch the interesting debate between the Dem. Prez. candidates at Howard? I found it interesting that they all condemned the Bush administration for unilaterally intervening in Iraq and staying there despite the civil war between rival factions. Then, in response to the next question about Sudan, they all said we should intervene in Darfur even if we have to do it unilaterally (as China would veto any UN resolution authorizing force) in a conflict marred by civil strife between rival factions.

Yeah, I thought that was pretty interesting. I'm trying to find a full transcript of the debate

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by dmek25

some people want freedom, some do not.

EVERYONE wants freedom. That is not the wisest of comments. Although, I am assuming the ones that you say "do not", just don't want it from the USA.

this disaster that President Bush has pulled the U.S. into is nothing more, nothing less.

See, this is why your arguments have very little validity, you put too much opinion in, and not enough fact. Practically the entire world agreed to this war, and practically everyone in congress including your buddies, the Dems. If Bush did this alone, I don't understand why everyone (including you) has referred to him as stupid. Anyone that can do that is the most intelligent person on the planet. You can't have it both ways.

i am not a quitter, but i realize when i am wrong, and do what it takes to correct my mistakes. this is the republicans biggest flaw. not willing to concede when they are wrong. and then willing to try and fix their mistakes. and i am neither dumb, nor lazy

That is not the problem here. The problem is not that they realize they are wrong. The problem is more of, they (and by they, I mean you dems too) bit off more than they can chew. You were warned it would take a while to fix this, and it is. Why back out now? There has been a plethera of progress, but you choose to ignore that. That's a shame.
Remember Clinton Portis' first TD with us against Tampa? What if he decided to fall down around Tampa's 30 yard line and be tackled? That is what you are suggesting the country do. Finish what you started.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by jsarno

EVERYONE wants freedom. That is not the wisest of comments. Although, I am assuming the ones that you say "do not", just don't want it from the USA.



See, this is why your arguments have very little validity, you put too much opinion in, and not enough fact. Practically the entire world agreed to this war, and practically everyone in congress including your buddies, the Dems. If Bush did this alone, I don't understand why everyone (including you) has referred to him as stupid. Anyone that can do that is the most intelligent person on the planet. You can't have it both ways.



That is not the problem here. The problem is not that they realize they are wrong. The problem is more of, they (and by they, I mean you dems too) bit off more than they can chew. You were warned it would take a while to fix this, and it is. Why back out now? There has been a plethera of progress, but you choose to ignore that. That's a shame.
Remember Clinton Portis' first TD with us against Tampa? What if he decided to fall down around Tampa's 30 yard line and be tackled? That is what you are suggesting the country do. Finish what you started.

If he did that, I would call him a dumbass selfish player and demand he be traded the next day!!!

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well we have something we can agree upon and if I'm correct he is the only person running for office that voted against the war.

Well, he publicly spoke out against the war. At the time he was a state legislator and not a U.S. Senator, so he didn't actually have a vote. But he is recognized as the only candidate running that publicly denounced the war.