Lavar has been misused...

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by jordanz301

i gaurentee you if i could rewind time about 2-3 yrs ago u guys wera ALL on arringtons nuts.....the guy had knee problems!!!.....is it a crime that the guy wants to get paid, or the fact that the redskins didnt pay him his money that was OWED to him...no........if my boss didint pay me money that he owed me too id make a big deal about it too.........the only thing ill agree on is the fact he went to the media about how his coaches werent treating him right........i want him to stay and get a shot........if hes no good in GW mind then ill accept parting ways until then i wanna see LA as a skins.......plus(i just got this season a 300 authentic arrington jersey) haha i dont wanna retire thatr jersey yett......

The money wasn't owed to him.

[Skins_4_Lyfe]

How about running a 3-4 so Lavar can be more freely. LOL

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Skins_4_Lyfe

How about running a 3-4 so Lavar can be more freely.

[jordanz301]

point well taken shneed......VERY well taken.........i agree with you a hundred percent, but its the times when he IS healthy that id love to see hiim whereing bergundy and gold..........i just dont want to see him leave and get back to the pro bowl after he leaves......kinda like trotter.......if hes gnna make 10 tackles a game and he doesnt know anything thats going on, then so be it...... i dont care if hes dumb as a long as long as he produces bt like shneed said hed have to be healthy for that..

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by jordanz301

point well taken shneed......VERY well taken.........i agree with you a hundred percent, but its the times when he IS healthy that id love to see hiim whereing bergundy and gold..........i just dont want to see him leave and get back to the pro bowl after he leaves......kinda like trotter.......if hes gnna make 10 tackles a game and he doesnt know anything thats going on, then so be it...... i dont care if hes dumb as a long as long as he produces bt like shneed said hed have to be healthy for that..

And in the end the decision on what to do with him will be entirely driven by his cap figures, which are entirely dependent upon the CBA negotiations. He might be a Skin next year and I will root for him if he is. I just think he's way overrated.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

And in the end the decision on what to do with him will be entirely driven by his cap figures, which are entirely dependent upon the CBA negotiations. He might be a Skin next year and I will root for him if he is. I just think he's way overrated.

I think it will be hard for the coaches to keep Lavar. They have proved over the last two years that they can play great defense without him. The "imagine if..." argument is not strong enough to overcome his cap number. I know its dependent on the CBA extension, and dead cap, bla bla bla. I'd say its 90% he's gone.

(The "imagine if..." argument: "imagine if Lavar had been playing too! GW's defense would have had 16 shutouts")

[Oakland Red]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

1) The knee problem is my exact point. The only reason Lavar was a good player was his pure speed. When the knee problem robbed him of his speed, it became very apparent how technicially unsound he was.

2) In this past season Lavar had some good games. I remember one game when he had 10 tackles and was all over the field. He had finally gotten his knee healthy and his speed was there. So he was making plays, and it was nice to see. But then towards the end of the season the leg started bothering him again. I kept seeing him limping off the field. Some players can play hurt and play through pain even when their speed isn't 100%, because those players work hard, study opponents' tendencies, and practice sound technique. Lavar is definitely not one of them. If he's hurt, he's useless. He can play through pain because he's tough, but he can't play WELL through pain. He needs his speed to be effective.

Now, do you want to see $12 million in cap space go to a guy who can't be counted on to do much of anything unless he's 100%? For a guy coming off a knee injury, I say NO WAY.

Just think about who Lavar is for a second, though. Whenever I hear him speak, I can tell how much emotion he has in him. He plays with ferocity, and you can tell how proud he is. You can tell how much he cares about the Skins too. And his outbursts to the media (complaints about coaches) are entirely driven by emotions. He has retracted his statements several times because he lets his emotions get the best of him, and he just pops off. Then later once he cools off, he regrets what he said. That's Lavar in a nutshell, a ball of emotions.

I have no problem with emotion, you need it to play with ferocity. My main problem with Lavar is what you DON'T EVER hear him talk about. He never says anything insightful, analytical, or calculating. He never talks about the importance of technique, he never mentions being in the right place so that his teammates can make plays. When I've heard Antonio Pierce or Lemar Marshall speak, they talk about directing traffic, identifying formations, adjusting before the snap. They understand that getting Griffin and Salave'a lined up in the right spot means the LBs will have a better chance to make tackles. They talk about maintaining containment on edge runs. They talk about how a TE like Jeremy Shockey threatens certain areas of the defense, and how it's very important to stay with him in coverage. All these things they talk about, it's all indicative of a player who works hard and studies hard. They understand the importance of technique and film study, and they take coaching to heart. I NEVER hear Lavar say anything that indicates he values these kinds of things. He's not a complete player. He has the emotion and he has the speed, but he doesn't have the mind for the NFL game.

When healthy he's a force. But you can't use emotion and speed when your body is hurting. You have to use your brain and focus on being in the right place at the right time.

I think this is a good analysis. What makes a team strong is people working together effectively, and LaVar does not work with other people very well. His distracting criticisms and his working for the team but not with the team make him a liability.

He is an albatross for the team at this point, and I'm confident he will be traded or released.

[jordanz301]

i jst dont wnna see him leaave, and go be a big hit somewhere else.....like pierce i know you saw that one fumble recovery play he made this yr like a thousand times.......i jst dont want the same to happen......and i jst BOUGHT A 300 DOLLOR JERSEY!

[That Guy]

pierce played well, but marshall played just as well and didn't get hurt (like AP). It doesn't matter if they're a hit somewhere else, it only matters if the skins can replace them adequately.

If lavar redoes his deal he probably stays... taking a 12mill hit this year or next is insane... he's a crapload of money either way and i think danny screwed up on his contract. I don't think the skins would miss him much ssince he hasn't really played, but we'll need someone (anyone) better than holdman to take over. It'd suck to pay arrington 7+mill to be an average LB, but it might happen cause the cost of letting him go AND paying his replacement would be too much.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by That Guy

pierce played well, but marshall played just as well and didn't get hurt (like AP). It doesn't matter if they're a hit somewhere else, it only matters if the skins can replace them adequately.

If lavar redoes his deal he probably stays... taking a 12mill hit this year or next is insane... he's a crapload of money either way and i think danny screwed up on his contract. I don't think the skins would miss him much ssince he hasn't really played, but we'll need someone (anyone) better than holdman to take over. It'd suck to pay arrington 7+mill to be an average LB, but it might happen cause the cost of letting him go AND paying his replacement would be too much.

We have painted ouselves into a corner with Lavar, obviously our big spending is finally coming home to roost, Lavar, Brunell, are 2 of the biggest wastes of money we have. I believe we should cut ties with him, not only can we replace him with a rookie, but we could upgrade, I am absolutly comfortable with Clemons full time if he returns healthy.

We have to get the cap under control, although I feel we are prepared to take the next step to legitamate SB contender, our cap this year may not allow it, this may be a year that we go with Campbell from day 1, and send Brunell packing, I say we turn Campbell loose and see what we have, we can then have our cap under control for the following season, Lavar is a waste, and Brunell is not the future, time to make some tough cuts for the good of our future.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by offiss

We have painted ouselves into a corner with Lavar, obviously our big spending is finally coming home to roost, Lavar, Brunell, are 2 of the biggest wastes of money we have. I believe we should cut ties with him, not only can we replace him with a rookie, but we could upgrade, I am absolutly comfortable with Clemons full time if he returns healthy.

We have to get the cap under control, although I feel we are prepared to take the next step to legitamate SB contender, our cap this year may not allow it, this may be a year that we go with Campbell from day 1, and send Brunell packing, I say we turn Campbell loose and see what we have, we can then have our cap under control for the following season, Lavar is a waste, and Brunell is not the future, time to make some tough cuts for the good of our future.

its nice that you think clemons is ready to go... he's been decent on rushing the passer, but i haven't seen him in coverage etc at all. and what happens if he gets hurt? you need a reserve and without lavar we'd need to get somebody who isn't worthless.

[70Chip]

The only thing we know about C Clemons is that he is a decent pass rusher off the edge. It would be ridiculous to assume he is an every down player. If he is, I would have liked to have seen him in the game instead of Holdman.

I understand that people feel a loyalty to Lavar because he was making plays and putting forth effort when it seemed that no one else was. I like Lavar as well. The thing is, though, the way the financial aspects of the game are structured, you can't give your heart and soul to any individual player. Darrell Green was the last Redskin I felt any attachment to, and he was the only one for many years. If he he had not played for so long, the last one would have retired around '94 (Monte) or '95 (Monk). Maybe its age, but I just can't get worked up about anyone getting the axe unless I think its a dumb football decision which is not the case here. Its not personal with Lavar. Its not personal with Patrick. It won't be personal the next time with the next guy. (Brunell? Wynn?) So, I'll listen to someone make a case on the football merits, but sentimentality will not persuade me anymore.

[Dirtbag59]

Is anyone else hoping for no salary cap as much as I am?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by offiss

We have painted ouselves into a corner with Lavar, obviously our big spending is finally coming home to roost, Lavar, Brunell, are 2 of the biggest wastes of money we have. I believe we should cut ties with him, not only can we replace him with a rookie, but we could upgrade, I am absolutly comfortable with Clemons full time if he returns healthy.

We have to get the cap under control, although I feel we are prepared to take the next step to legitamate SB contender, our cap this year may not allow it, this may be a year that we go with Campbell from day 1, and send Brunell packing, I say we turn Campbell loose and see what we have, we can then have our cap under control for the following season, Lavar is a waste, and Brunell is not the future, time to make some tough cuts for the good of our future.

I can't take a single thing you say seriously, because you're so obviously biased against Mark Brunell.

[MTK]

Cutting Brunell leaves Gibbs with no safety net at all, especially since it's obvious Ramsey is on his way out.

There's just no way Gibbs would take that big of a risk at QB.