Gibbs

[sportscurmudgeon]

Skinsfan242:

Did you accidentally leave off Gibbs acquisition of Mark Brunell - at the cost of a draft pick and a large salary - from your compendium of his errors? Or do you think that was one of his good personnel moves?

Will the Skins be better off when Gibbs leaves than they were when he arrives? Not if they keep the rest of this bloated and over-rated coaching staff around when he's gone...

[Skinsfan1967]

Before coach returned the only player we got excited over, argueably, was Arrington. We now have young and talented players with Cooley, Campbell, Taylor, Rocky, Landry, Portis...the list goes on. To say that Coach Gibbs has not improved the team would be incorrect. We have a core of good players instead of just one or two.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by Skinsfan1967

Before coach returned the only player we got excited over, argueably, was Arrington. We now have young and talented players with Cooley, Campbell, Taylor, Rocky, Landry, Portis...the list goes on. To say that Coach Gibbs has not improved the team would be incorrect. We have a core of good players instead of just one or two.

lets look at it this way. the patriots, (in the playoffs EVERYYEAR, superbowls after superbowls) have aproximately 49 of the 53 players on that roster from the DRAFT. We beat this in the ground every year. Everyone wants to look at the players we have, and yes they are good young talent no question. But, if they have the picks there are suppose to have we may not be dealing with cap issues every year, depth problems every year, play 10Million out to people that dont see the field, or get traded for late round picks. two picks for Rocky, Two picks for Cooley, Picks for Portis, Thrash?? Duckett two picks, are you serious. Teams that build through the draft are better consistant teams. (the majority of them)

I think we will all be beating this around for years to come. the front office has a philosophy and its not going to change.

[SmootSmack]

think we'll only beat it around because people are afraid to look forward without constantly condeming past mistakes. We've made good moves and bad moves. Just like almost every other team in the NFL. In any sport for that matter.

The future will hold more of the same, even with a different philosophy; which I think you will see us exhibit with more consistency.

[skinsfan242]

Who is Czaban? Another guy with an opinion, that's it. In my opinion we are better off then before.
All you guys who sit here and bad mouth everything are the first guys to praise everything when we win. You are also probably the same guys who leave when we are down by 8 with the ball at the stadium.

I don't think any one of you actually remembers what the team was like when Spurrier was here. It is not easy to turn that mess into something positive.
Sometimes you pay more, but you wouldn't trade an extra pick for Cooley? Please!
You don't think getting Springs wasn't part of the Plan of dumping Bailey (Who WASN'T going to sign)?
You think trading up to get Campbell wasn't worth the extra picks? When you see a potential franchise QB you do what it takes to get him.

Now nobody think trading extra picks is the best way to go but to say we are not better off now then before is insane.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsfan242

Now nobody think trading extra picks is the best way to go but to say we are not better off now then before is insane.

Well see, you have your opinion and others have theirs. I agree with you personally that we are better off but I don't think to disagree with that is "insane"

[offiss]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You're making this argument in another thread and it kind of baffles me quite honestly

And also, what rounds do you think McIntosh, Cooley, Blades, Golston, Montgomery were all drafted in?

Montgomery, Golston, and Blades? I think because a player that Gibbs drafts actually sees the playing field he's immediately headed for canton, give me a break, Cooley we had to give away picks because of Gibbs trade for Portis, and same thing with Rocky because of campbell, Cooley is tremendous, take a look at the kid Oakland took in the second rd same as Rocky, Thomas Howard, so far he's been better than Rocky. Even the players that pan out we over pay for, and out of all those players you named Cooley is the only bonified player, rocky hasn't done nearly enough for any one to hang their hats on him.

Bottom line if Gibbs has done a good job with the draft then there is no reason for our 5-11 season last year, nore should we be sitting at 5-4 this season, especially with so many older players still having to carry the load, as in Daniels, and Griffen.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by offiss

Montgomery, Golston, and Blades? I think because a player that Gibbs drafts actually sees the playing field he's immediately headed for canton, give me a break, Cooley we had to give away picks because of Gibbs trade for Portis, and same thing with Rocky because of campbell, Cooley is tremendous, take a look at the kid Oakland took in the second rd same as Rocky, Thomas Howard, so far he's been better than Rocky. Even the players that pan out we over pay for, and out of all those players you named Cooley is the only bonified player, rocky hasn't done nearly enough for any one to hang their hats on him.

Bottom line if Gibbs has done a good job with the draft then there is no reason for our 5-11 season last year, nore should we be sitting at 5-4 this season, especially with so many older players still having to carry the load, as in Daniels, and Griffen.

Remember when the Pats drafted Laurence Maroney with Joseph Addai still on the board?

I guess Pioli is a terrible GM, huh?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by offiss

Montgomery, Golston, and Blades? I think because a player that Gibbs drafts actually sees the playing field he's immediately headed for canton, give me a break, Cooley we had to give away picks because of Gibbs trade for Portis, and same thing with Rocky because of campbell, Cooley is tremendous, take a look at the kid Oakland took in the second rd same as Rocky, Thomas Howard, so far he's been better than Rocky. Even the players that pan out we over pay for, and out of all those players you named Cooley is the only bonified player, rocky hasn't done nearly enough for any one to hang their hats on him.

Bottom line if Gibbs has done a good job with the draft then there is no reason for our 5-11 season last year, nore should we be sitting at 5-4 this season, especially with so many older players still having to carry the load, as in Daniels, and Griffen.

We're talking about a foundation for the future. Beyond the 1st rounders (Landry, Campbell, Taylor, Rogers) we have, in my opinion, selected players in later rounds that are a foundation for future. Such as the ones mentioned above.

There's vast room for improvement, no question. But it's not as dismal as some think.

[Beemnseven]

Even as I've been a harsh critic of Gibbs the personnel man, I give him credit for picks like Golston and Montgomery, - those are legitimate gems unearthed in what has traditionally been No Man's Land in Washington: the 5th, 6th, and 7th round of the NFL draft.

What bothers me more, is the expansive foundation Gibbs could have laid without giving away 3rd and 4th round draft picks as though they were ketchup packs at Burger King. In addition to the fact that those are picks we gave away for a guy who's not even here! Duckett lasted one season and was inactive for weeks! And Brandon Lloyd is right behind him.

The hideous repercussions of those moves far outweigh any positive personnel move he's made. If he were any other man than Joe Gibbs, on any other team that made that kind of outrageous mistake, he'd have been fired on the spot.

Has it crossed anybody's mind that maybe with all of those picks, the replacements for Jon Jansen, Randy Thomas, Sean Taylor or Santana Moss might have been able to contribute this season when we're getting hammered by injuries?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Even as I've been a harsh critic of Gibbs the personnel man, I give him credit for picks like Golston and Montgomery, - those are legitimate gems unearthed in what has traditionally been No Man's Land in Washington: the 5th, 6th, and 7th round of the NFL draft.

What bothers me more, is the expansive foundation Gibbs could have laid without giving away 3rd and 4th round draft picks as though they were ketchup packs at Burger King. In addition to the fact that those are picks we gave away for a guy who's not even here! Duckett lasted one season and was inactive for weeks! And Brandon Lloyd is right behind him.

The hideous repercussions of those moves far outweigh any positive personnel move he's made. If he were any other man than Joe Gibbs, on any other team that made that kind of outrageous mistake, he'd have been fired on the spot.

Has it crossed anybody's mind that maybe with all of those picks, the replacements for Jon Jansen, Randy Thomas, Sean Taylor or Santana Moss might have been able to contribute this season when we're getting hammered by injuries?

Exactly. I think a big reason injuries seem to devastate us so much is the lack of quality depth to fill in the holes. A prime example is how well middle round picks are contributing for us right now (Golston, Montgomery, Cooley, Blades, etc). Another handful of guys like that and our injury bug might not sting as much.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Remember when the Pats drafted Laurence Maroney with Joseph Addai still on the board?

I guess Pioli is a terrible GM, huh?

Are you saying Maroney is a bust? Addai right now is having a better start to his carreer, but Maroney is as, or more talented a RB, he defiently needs to stay healthy to prove it but that guy can play.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by offiss

Are you saying Maroney is a bust? Addai right now is having a better start to his carreer, but Maroney is as, or more talented a RB, he defiently needs to stay healthy to prove it but that guy can play.

I think his quote was in response to your post regarding the comparison between McIntosh and the oakland lb. They're both solid players, just because one has slightly out performed the other to this point doesn't mean that their careers will end up that way. I think we've seen alot out of Rocky to be excited about in the future regardless of what the oak rb does.

If you use the justification that if player A was picked in round 5 and player B was picked in round 7, and player B turns out to be an equal or better pro, that therefore player A was a bad pick regardless of his overall quality, I think it's a flawed arguement.

Whew that sentence is confusing but I think you get my point. Using the same logic a qb who is equal or less than Tom Brady that was picked in the 5th round or earlier is a bad pick because another team got more value in a later round. I don't think that judging it like that is representative of the true value of a player/pick.

[irish]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Even if it's 7 busts out of 32, that's almost 22%. I wouldn't say that's low by any means. And it definitely points to there being more to drafting than just watching some college ball on a Saturday afternoon.

So you think an 80% success rate is low?! From where I come from 80% is doing pretty good especially in something as speculative as the draft.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by irish

So you think an 80% success rate is low?! From where I come from 80% is doing pretty good especially in something as speculative as the draft.

Speculative?

I thought you said: Anybody that even remotely follows college football can make a good pick in the 1st round