Gibbs

skinsfan242 · 11-14-2007, 10:01 AM

I know half the people don't agree with what Gibbs has done but lets take a look back.

He drafted C. Rogers over M. Williams (who I know everyone wanted). How did that end up?

We got Portis and Springs essentially for Bailey and T. Bell.

We Got M. Washington, C. Griffin, C. Rabach, L. Fletcher, Randle El, Moss

We Drafted J. Campbell, S. Taylor, L. Landry, R. McIntosh, A. Montgomery, K. Golston

Didn't overpay Smoot and then brought him back for much less

We found C. Wilson. L. Alexander, S. Suisham, E. Albright

We waited to play J. Campbell until he was ready while everyone was screaming for him. We didn't throw him in the fire look at how that worked out for San Fran and others.

He built a physical team from Spurriers mess he left us with.

We are complaining about a WINNING record when we haven't won anything in 16 years.

Sure there were a few mishaps Lloyd, Archuleta, Clark.

But can anyone say when if he steps down we aren't light years ahead of where we were? I didn't think so.

BleedBurgundy · 11-14-2007, 10:10 AM

Not to be a dick but this has been said ad nauseam. Try the search feature... That said, I do agree with everything you posted.

jdlea · 11-14-2007, 10:22 AM

The only problem with that is that if he were to leave, this team won't have much of future because Washington looks like his career is going to start to tail off, Rabach is still solid, but Fletcher is 32, Griffin is almost done, and Santana Moss...well, he looks like Santana Moss again. The guy was always injured and inconsistent in NY and now he's doing the same thing here. He's only had 2 1000+ yard receiving years out of 7 in the league, it's not that he can't play, he just can't stay healthy and that leads to inconsistency. As for Randle El, he should be solid for the foreseeable future, but outside of that, this team is not that well prepared to make a long run into the future.

None of this should be misconstrued as being a "hater," I really like all of these guys, but they don't have much time left and this team needs to start getting younger. I like the mix they have, and by no means are the Skins the oldest team in the NFL or even that close to it, but there does need to be some infusion of young talent on the offensive side of the ball and some more of it on the D Line.

Also, Marty "found" Ethan Albright who was already in the league for 5 years.

DFI · 11-14-2007, 10:41 AM

all great points. Good post

SFREDSKIN · 11-14-2007, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdlea

The only problem with that is that if he were to leave, this team won't have much of future because Washington looks like his career is going to start to tail off, Rabach is still solid, but Fletcher is 32, Griffin is almost done, and Santana Moss...well, he looks like Santana Moss again. The guy was always injured and inconsistent in NY and now he's doing the same thing here. He's only had 2 1000+ yard receiving years out of 7 in the league, it's not that he can't play, he just can't stay healthy and that leads to inconsistency. As for Randle El, he should be solid for the foreseeable future, but outside of that, this team is not that well prepared to make a long run into the future.

None of this should be misconstrued as being a "hater," I really like all of these guys, but they don't have much time left and this team needs to start getting younger. I like the mix they have, and by no means are the Skins the oldest team in the NFL or even that close to it, but there does need to be some infusion of young talent on the offensive side of the ball and some more of it on the D Line.

Also, Marty "found" Ethan Albright who was already in the league for 5 years.

We have HB Blades in the wings to replace Fletcher, I wouldn't be surprised if is an impact player next year. Michael Espy to replace Moss (yes I think he's that good) only concern is coming back from injury.

BringBackJoeT · 11-14-2007, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan242

I know half the people don't agree with what Gibbs has done but lets take a look back.

He drafted C. Rogers over M. Williams (who I know everyone wanted). How did that end up?

We got Portis and Springs essentially for Bailey and T. Bell.

We Got M. Washington, C. Griffin, C. Rabach, L. Fletcher, Randle El, Moss

We Drafted J. Campbell, S. Taylor, L. Landry, R. McIntosh, A. Montgomery, K. Golston

Didn't overpay Smoot and then brought him back for much less

We found C. Wilson. L. Alexander, S. Suisham, E. Albright

We waited to play J. Campbell until he was ready while everyone was screaming for him. We didn't throw him in the fire look at how that worked out for San Fran and others.

He built a physical team from Spurriers mess he left us with.

We are complaining about a WINNING record when we haven't won anything in 16 years.

Sure there were a few mishaps Lloyd, Archuleta, Clark.

But can anyone say when if he steps down we aren't light years ahead of where we were? I didn't think so.

Indeed, this is a subject that we're beating to death. But to respond to the challenge of "can anyone say when [Gibbs] steps down we aren't light years ahead of where we were," I can't imagine I'm the only one who could very, very easily say that, if he were to step down today, we are NOT "light years" ahead of where we were. Again, we're going over and over this topic. But as that bastard Parcells proclaimed, you're as good as your record, and Gibbs overall record more than three and a half years into his second stint is below
.500, which makes him almost indistinguishable from the five coaches (Richie, Turner, Robiske, Marty, Spurrier) who preceded him (well, Marty actually had an even .500). As Boswell said in the Post last week, this team is mediocre. Period. If you're saying that Gibbs has laid a foundation for a powerhouse in the years to come, well, that's something I haven't heard too many NFL experts say. Sure, the so-called "experts" consistently show that they don't exactly have crystal balls, but I guess I'm just not as confident as you are that the current team is a youthful, soon-to-be dominator. Look, I'm not blaming anything on Coach Joe, I'm simply responding to your suggestion that he has radically turned the organization around. He hasn't.

LRT · 11-14-2007, 11:18 AM

I think this is an important point. Joe Gibbs has made this a much better organization than it was before he came back from retirement. In terms of personnel moves, stability and character, we are far closer to being the "old Redskins" than we were under Turner or Spurrier. (To be honest, I think Schottenheimer had us on the right track, too...)

I know that I greatly underestimated how big of a mess Spurrier left behind here - and I think other did as well. In many ways, we were well on our way to becoming the Lions or the Cardinals - consistent losers with a bad front office.

So, while Joe Gibbs hasn't gotten us a fourth Lombardy trophy (yet), but we are back on the path to respectability. And a hard loss to the Eagles doesn't change that fact.

Daseal · 11-14-2007, 11:26 AM

Uh, he didn't find Ethan Albright.... feels like Albright has been around since his first tenure, but Albright was here before Gibbs 2.0

ncskinsfanec · 11-14-2007, 12:05 PM

Gibbs is, and will always be the man. He's played a major part in making this franchise what it is. He's still doing a good job even though the league has changed drastically since his first time around.

skinsfan242 · 11-14-2007, 12:39 PM

Ok. He didn't find Albright. But how about we replace him with Cooley who I somehow left off the list.

Some of you guys still miss the point I don't understand how you cannot see the fact that we have vastly improved in personnel since he got back and we have a solid foundation. Not to mention a Potential FRANCHISE QB who has only started 16 games.

This is very similar to Parcells in Dallas. We want to run Gibbs out of town then watch his players be great, and give all the creidt to another coach.

irish · 11-14-2007, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringBackJoeT

Indeed, this is a subject that we're beating to death. But to respond to the challenge of "can anyone say when [Gibbs] steps down we aren't light years ahead of where we were," I can't imagine I'm the only one who could very, very easily say that, if he were to step down today, we are NOT "light years" ahead of where we were. Again, we're going over and over this topic. But as that bastard Parcells proclaimed, you're as good as your record, and Gibbs overall record more than three and a half years into his second stint is below
.500, which makes him almost indistinguishable from the five coaches (Richie, Turner, Robiske, Marty, Spurrier) who preceded him (well, Marty actually had an even .500). As Boswell said in the Post last week, this team is mediocre. Period. If you're saying that Gibbs has laid a foundation for a powerhouse in the years to come, well, that's something I haven't heard too many NFL experts say. Sure, the so-called "experts" consistently show that they don't exactly have crystal balls, but I guess I'm just not as confident as you are that the current team is a youthful, soon-to-be dominator. Look, I'm not blaming anything on Coach Joe, I'm simply responding to your suggestion that he has radically turned the organization around. He hasn't.

I couldnt agree more. Any notion that this team is light years ahead of where it was is just not reality. I think until the organization fundamentally changes the way it does business (build the foundation through the draft and fill a spot or 2 with FAs) then it will continue to have mediocre results.

#56fanatic · 11-14-2007, 01:10 PM

beating a dead horse here :

1) Portis for Bailey & Bell - springs can not be included in that, he signed as a FA.

2) the organization is in no better shape now than it was 4 years ago. To say that it is, well that is too much cool aid my friends. Who cares who we have on the Roster, we dont win. Isn't winning the defining term of what a regime does? Not having so called young studs. Who knows, maybe 3 or 4 years from now those young studs (if we are able to afford them!) may be probowl players. But as of today, we are no better than what we have been the past 10 years, not alone the past 4 years. We continually have to release this player, renegotiate with this player, sign a FA to a lesser contract to make up for this guy we had to cut, this is the same crap that has gone on for 10 years. If you guys think this current roster will be around for another 2 or 3 years, WRONG. Moss wont be here, Portis wont be here, Smoot, Marcus (he may be too old by then anyway) Randel El all those guys will be gone. I hope and pray we keep Taylor, Cooley, Campbell, Rogers, Landry , and Rocky. But, who knows.

Springs will be cut after this year, Marcus too (that is a feeling) Lloyd (no brainer) Daniels (another no brainer) Griffin will be gone.
i guess I am just saying we are no better now than we were before Gibbs 2.

SFREDSKIN · 11-14-2007, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

Springs will be cut after this year, Marcus too (that is a feeling) Lloyd (no brainer) Daniels (another no brainer) Griffin will be gone.
i guess I am just saying we are no better now than we were before Gibbs 2.

I think Springs stays due to the Rogers injury, Griffin probably too stays. The rest will be gone.

SmootSmack · 11-14-2007, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish

I couldnt agree more. Any notion that this team is light years ahead of where it was is just not reality. I think until the organization fundamentally changes the way it does business (build the foundation through the draft and fill a spot or 2 with FAs) then it will continue to have mediocre results.

I think you're greatly underestimating/ignoring what we have done with the draft.

SouperMeister · 11-14-2007, 01:43 PM

Aside from signing Archuleta, trading picks for Lloyd and Duckett, and allowing Pierce to leave for reasonable money, almost every other personnel move has had a positive impact.

My bigger problem has been with the coaching, more specifically the offensive coaching. When Gibbs returned, I just assumed that his offense would carry the team and that the defense would struggle. It has been the complete opposite. Look at virtually every top team in the NFL this year, and all of them take shots in the passing game. With the rules changes favoring WRs, Gibbs has been slow to adjust his philosophy to leverage that. I've felt that he'd be better off going back to his Air Coryell roots that he established as SD's offensive coordinator.

11-14-2007, 10:01 AM	#1
skinsfan242 Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 152	Gibbs I know half the people don't agree with what Gibbs has done but lets take a look back. He drafted C. Rogers over M. Williams (who I know everyone wanted). How did that end up? We got Portis and Springs essentially for Bailey and T. Bell. We Got M. Washington, C. Griffin, C. Rabach, L. Fletcher, Randle El, Moss We Drafted J. Campbell, S. Taylor, L. Landry, R. McIntosh, A. Montgomery, K. Golston Didn't overpay Smoot and then brought him back for much less We found C. Wilson. L. Alexander, S. Suisham, E. Albright We waited to play J. Campbell until he was ready while everyone was screaming for him. We didn't throw him in the fire look at how that worked out for San Fran and others. He built a physical team from Spurriers mess he left us with. We are complaining about a WINNING record when we haven't won anything in 16 years. Sure there were a few mishaps Lloyd, Archuleta, Clark. But can anyone say when if he steps down we aren't light years ahead of where we were? I didn't think so.

11-14-2007, 10:10 AM	#2
BleedBurgundy Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,471	Re: Gibbs Not to be a dick but this has been said ad nauseam. Try the search feature... That said, I do agree with everything you posted. __________________ "All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." Thomas Paine

11-14-2007, 10:22 AM	#3
jdlea Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 41 Posts: 3,109	Re: Gibbs The only problem with that is that if he were to leave, this team won't have much of future because Washington looks like his career is going to start to tail off, Rabach is still solid, but Fletcher is 32, Griffin is almost done, and Santana Moss...well, he looks like Santana Moss again. The guy was always injured and inconsistent in NY and now he's doing the same thing here. He's only had 2 1000+ yard receiving years out of 7 in the league, it's not that he can't play, he just can't stay healthy and that leads to inconsistency. As for Randle El, he should be solid for the foreseeable future, but outside of that, this team is not that well prepared to make a long run into the future. None of this should be misconstrued as being a "hater," I really like all of these guys, but they don't have much time left and this team needs to start getting younger. I like the mix they have, and by no means are the Skins the oldest team in the NFL or even that close to it, but there does need to be some infusion of young talent on the offensive side of the ball and some more of it on the D Line. Also, Marty "found" Ethan Albright who was already in the league for 5 years.

11-14-2007, 10:41 AM	#4
DFI Special Teams Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: On the Road Age: 57 Posts: 231	Re: Gibbs all great points. Good post

11-14-2007, 11:18 AM	#7
LRT Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Springfield, VA Age: 59 Posts: 174	Re: Gibbs I think this is an important point. Joe Gibbs has made this a much better organization than it was before he came back from retirement. In terms of personnel moves, stability and character, we are far closer to being the "old Redskins" than we were under Turner or Spurrier. (To be honest, I think Schottenheimer had us on the right track, too...) I know that I greatly underestimated how big of a mess Spurrier left behind here - and I think other did as well. In many ways, we were well on our way to becoming the Lions or the Cardinals - consistent losers with a bad front office. So, while Joe Gibbs hasn't gotten us a fourth Lombardy trophy (yet), but we are back on the path to respectability. And a hard loss to the Eagles doesn't change that fact.

11-14-2007, 11:26 AM	#8
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	Re: Gibbs Uh, he didn't find Ethan Albright.... feels like Albright has been around since his first tenure, but Albright was here before Gibbs 2.0 __________________ Best. Player. Available.

11-14-2007, 12:05 PM	#9
ncskinsfanec Special Teams Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 432	Re: Gibbs Gibbs is, and will always be the man. He's played a major part in making this franchise what it is. He's still doing a good job even though the league has changed drastically since his first time around.

11-14-2007, 12:39 PM	#10
skinsfan242 Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 152	Re: Gibbs Ok. He didn't find Albright. But how about we replace him with Cooley who I somehow left off the list. Some of you guys still miss the point I don't understand how you cannot see the fact that we have vastly improved in personnel since he got back and we have a solid foundation. Not to mention a Potential FRANCHISE QB who has only started 16 games. This is very similar to Parcells in Dallas. We want to run Gibbs out of town then watch his players be great, and give all the creidt to another coach.

11-14-2007, 01:10 PM	#12
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 51 Posts: 1,801	Re: Gibbs beating a dead horse here : 1) Portis for Bailey & Bell - springs can not be included in that, he signed as a FA. 2) the organization is in no better shape now than it was 4 years ago. To say that it is, well that is too much cool aid my friends. Who cares who we have on the Roster, we dont win. Isn't winning the defining term of what a regime does? Not having so called young studs. Who knows, maybe 3 or 4 years from now those young studs (if we are able to afford them!) may be probowl players. But as of today, we are no better than what we have been the past 10 years, not alone the past 4 years. We continually have to release this player, renegotiate with this player, sign a FA to a lesser contract to make up for this guy we had to cut, this is the same crap that has gone on for 10 years. If you guys think this current roster will be around for another 2 or 3 years, WRONG. Moss wont be here, Portis wont be here, Smoot, Marcus (he may be too old by then anyway) Randel El all those guys will be gone. I hope and pray we keep Taylor, Cooley, Campbell, Rogers, Landry , and Rocky. But, who knows. Springs will be cut after this year, Marcus too (that is a feeling) Lloyd (no brainer) Daniels (another no brainer) Griffin will be gone. i guess I am just saying we are no better now than we were before Gibbs 2.

11-14-2007, 01:43 PM	#15
SouperMeister Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Leesburg, VA Age: 61 Posts: 3,419	Re: Gibbs Aside from signing Archuleta, trading picks for Lloyd and Duckett, and allowing Pierce to leave for reasonable money, almost every other personnel move has had a positive impact. My bigger problem has been with the coaching, more specifically the offensive coaching. When Gibbs returned, I just assumed that his offense would carry the team and that the defense would struggle. It has been the complete opposite. Look at virtually every top team in the NFL this year, and all of them take shots in the passing game. With the rules changes favoring WRs, Gibbs has been slow to adjust his philosophy to leverage that. I've felt that he'd be better off going back to his Air Coryell roots that he established as SD's offensive coordinator.

Gibbs

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