If you were Vinny, what would you do to keep your job?

[irish]

Originally Posted by Hog1

You are right, JZ needs to stay! My jury is out on VC.....for now
Many fans including Skins fans scream for "Cowher"..........but they forget how many seasons it took to reach the pinacle.

If you notice, Cowher's success came when the Steelers finally got rid of Kordell Stewart (after many years of trying to make him work out) and brought in a pro style QB. Cowher always had good Ds and a decent O but the QB kept holding them back.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

If you notice, Cowher's success came when the Steelers finally got rid of Kordell Stewart (after many years of trying to make him work out) and brought in a pro style QB. Cowher always had good Ds and a decent O but the QB kept holding them back.

How are you measuring success here? In four years with Stewart as the starting QB they went to two AFC Championship games

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

How are you measuring success here? In four years with Stewart as the starting QB they went to two AFC Championship games

Which is further testament to Cowher's coaching prowess given how amazingly mediocre Stewart was.

Typical Kordell Stewart stat line: 9-23 passing, 143 yards, 2ints
64 rushing yards, 1td

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by irish

If you notice, Cowher's success came when the Steelers finally got rid of Kordell Stewart (after many years of trying to make him work out) and brought in a pro style QB. Cowher always had good Ds and a decent O but the QB kept holding them back.

Can we not subtly compare Jason Campbell to Kordell Stewart?

Especially if your definition of "pro style QB" is Roethlisberger. For everything he does do well, operate efficiently from the pocket and make good pre snap reads are not among them.

[irish]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Can we not subtly compare Jason Campbell to Kordell Stewart?

Especially if your definition of "pro style QB" is Roethlisberger. For everything he does do well, operate efficiently from the pocket and make good pre snap reads are not among them.

I wasnt comparing them but if you want me to I will. I only stated what is a fact, once the Steelers got rid of KS after many years of trying to make him work they finally had success because the offense could finally score points. I get a chuckle out out of people that like to dis BR when all he has done since he came into the league is win a Super Bowl and take his team deep into the playoffs every year. For someone that cant operate from the pocket and make good pre-snap reads, he sure has been successful. FYI, a pro style QB drops back and throws the ball, he runs only when he has to. If you watch NFL games you can see that's what a pro style QB does. Thats what BR does which is why he's a pro style QB.

[The Goat]

Regarding specific players I think the path of pragmatism is likely drive Vinny's decisions. Guys like Springs, Taylor, and Daniels either 1) cost absurd sums to retain (especially considering what we get out of them) or 2) miss too much time to be counted on or 3) fit into both categories. Very easy to justify cutting them (cutting Taylor doesn't cost a dime, Springs has never shown inclination to restructure or help the team and Daniels has been hurt a ton). Goners from a practical perspective - dump them and we instantaneously have at least a few million in the bank.

Griffin and Washington appear to be special cases IMO. Washington will be relatively expensive to replace but could be cut and resigned or restructured on the cheap. Griffin is our best DT and he was a GD warrior this season, playing very solid through injuries. I think it was his best season since '05 not looking at statistics and that should count for something. Also we keep coming up against the reality of owning so few draft picks but needing to make serious upgrades on the o-line (probably have to draft/sign 1 or 2 very legit starters by opening day). In short i could see Marcus and Cornelius stay on another year because we may not have the resources to replace them and they're salaries can be manipulated.

Jansen isn't going anywhere. I don't care what happens to Heyer as long as he doesn't start.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Griffin and Washington appear to be special cases IMO. Washington will be relatively expensive to replace but could be cut and resigned or restructured on the cheap. Griffin is our best DT and he was a GD warrior this season, playing very solid through injuries. I think it was his best season since '05 not looking at statistics and that should count for something.

I think Washington is done.

As for Griffin, I agree with what you said about the quality of his play; however, he just hasn't stayed healthy enough to be on the field as much as we need him to be on it. Rocky Bernard had over twice as many tackles as CG and he had 4 sacks (CG had 1). That's a lot more production for the money.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I think Washington is done.

As for Griffin, I agree with what you said about the quality of his play; however, he just hasn't stayed healthy enough to be on the field as much as we need him to be on it. Rocky Bernard had over twice as many tackles as CG and he had 4 sacks (CG had 1). That's a lot more production for the money.

When it comes to DL, stats do not tell the entire story. The best and most disruptive DL frequently get double teamed, which opens the door for inferior line mates to swoop in and get the glory stats.
An example that comes to mind is Dave Butz. I can not tell you haw many times he would get double teamed and the DE or LB on his side would get the sacks.
When Griffen is healthy, he is the rock of our D-line. We do not have another DT of his abilities. Griffen would have to be replaced if we got rid of him.

[FlyWonderful23]

get rid of everybody! start new.

[davelavarra]

All Cerrato need to keep his job is stop listening to Snyder, I guess. We've thrown away so many picks, this year is no different. We need an immediate upgrade at DE and OT, but Vinnie and friends don't seem to get it.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by davelavarra

All Cerrato need to keep his job is stop listening to Snyder, I guess. We've thrown away so many picks, this year is no different. We need an immediate upgrade at DE and OT, but Vinnie and friends don't seem to get it.

If you stopped listening to YOUR boss, what are the chances that would help you KEEP your job?

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

If it is true that Vinny Cerrato and Jim Zorn must make the playoffs next season to keep their jobs, then what would you do to improve the team if you were in their shoes?

I’ve looked at Schneed10’s excellent Salary Cap Status – 2009 thread (I’m not going to summarize it here, so you may need to read it yourself to follow along) and, if I were Vinny or Jim, I’d make most of the moves that he mentioned but I would go further because I would need to feel that I had addressed the things that were most likely to cost me my job.

We can’t count on a new CBA, so we need to deal with putting next year’s team together with the salary cap the way it is right now. Schneed10 projects the Skins to be $0.6M under the cap after making the moves he foresees. Those moves include cutting Marcus Washington and salary reductions for Jason Taylor and Shawn Springs. That’s obviously not enough money to address our most critical needs in Free Agency and I don’t think that we can count on any drafted player to fill a critical need next season, so more cuts or trades will need to be made if V&J are to keep their jobs.

There aren’t that many places to look to free up cap space. As it turns out, some of the players who could be cut or traded are injury prone and injuries are a major factor in a team’s success or failure. If a player can’t stay on the field, then he is not going to help the team to get to the playoffs. So, I would not re-sign Shawn Springs and Cornelius Griffin, thus saving $6.7M against the cap. They may be our best CB and DT, respectively, but if they’re not on the field, it doesn’t matter.

With Phillip Daniels coming back, Jason Taylor will probably be used as a hybrid LB/DE or, worse, as a part-time DE. I’d pass on that a $4.0M price tag (assuming he accepts a salary reduction). By not re-signing him, we save another $4.5M.

With the projected emergence of the young WR’s and TE, we could also release James Thrash and Todd Yoder, thus saving another $1.6M.

Those moves would put us $13.4M under the current salary cap.

Now what do we do? First, we desperately need a RT to protect JC. I’d sign FA RT Stacy Andrews. Second, we need a solid DT. I’d sign FA DT Rocky Bernard who has much of the same skill set as Griffin, only he’s younger, healthier and, therefore, more productive. Thirdly, if there’s enough cap space remaining after those signings, I’d try to pick up a FA LB.

If there is a new CBA and, with it, an increase in the salary cap, then I’d go after FA LB Karlos Dansby to replace Marcus Washington.

We need a game breaker. So, in the draft, I’d select Percy Harvin (I assume he’ll be in the draft) who could be our “Slash” as a PR/KR/RB/Slot Receiver. Yes, I know we need to draft linemen, and we will. But first, I need to keep my job. So, we’re bringing in proven, but still young, FA players to fill our greatest needs and drafting a home run hitter to help us score more points.

Dude, you had me until you said draft Harvin. The LAST thing we need is another WR. Do you want to be the Detroit Lions, throwing all of our resources at that one position? Assuming we could sign the linemen you mention, I would still want the FO to draft additional linemen at the top of our draft.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Dude, you had me until you said draft Harvin. The LAST thing we need is another WR. Do you want to be the Detroit Lions, throwing all of our resources at that one position? Assuming we could sign the linemen you mention, I would still want the FO to draft additional linemen at the top of our draft.

I can't blame you for calling me out on Harvin. I was reaching to try to find some way to get more explosiveness into our offense.

In my (weak) defense, I was thinking of Harvin as a threat out of the backfield as well as a KR/PR and a WR. All three roles in a single game. You know, the speed kills thing?

[steven4est]

dude we def shouldnt trade chris horton for a draft pick..............he was a steal hes dirt cheap and hes awesome hes a future player trading him would be dumb

[TheSmurfs22]

You gotta keep Horton, he was an amazing find and isn't afraid to hit and has decent hands.