Sonny indicates our prayers may be answered

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

Firing Vinny would be a big step in the right direction, but the question lingers: Who for GM? Also, who is our new coach going to be?

I would wait until this actually happened (I'm skeptical, won't believe it until I see it.

[sportscurmudgeon]

If - - I said IF - - Vinny has to take a fall for the disastrous 2009 season, I suspect he will be given another "title" in the Danny Snyder Cosmos of Companies AND that he will have a radio show 5 days a week on ESPN 980 in Washington.

For those of you who do not live in the area and cannot hear that program - - count yourselves as most fortunate. In terms of being a good radio program host, Vinny makes a great bartender. Listening to his show makes your ears bleed.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

If - - I said IF - - Vinny has to take a fall for the disastrous 2009 season, I suspect he will be given another "title" in the Danny Snyder Cosmos of Companies AND that he will have a radio show 5 days a week on ESPN 980 in Washington.

For those of you who do not live in the area and cannot hear that program - - count yourselves as most fortunate. In terms of being a good radio program host, Vinny makes a great bartender. Listening to his show makes your ears bleed.

Better to have Vinny on a radio show that we can ignore than to have him in the front office.

[DCtoAZ]

One Question ... who the hell is Vinny .. i mean really, what has this guy EVER to deserve this job .. we are border line Matt Millen terrority with this guy .. good bye VC good bye you little weasel

[freddyg12]

I've come around to be in the fire vinny camp recently, though I don't think he can be blamed for most of the dysfunction. As Wilbon has said, if they'd listened to vinny a few times they might be in better shape.

I'm more of the opinion that vinny's relationship w/the danny is one that can't be conducive to an objective mgmt. structure. It seems by all accounts that they are too close for Vinny to actually 'run' the team as GM. Were the wr picks in 08 all his doing? Maybe the specific players were, but JLC made a good point that Snyder has for years been enammored w/ WRs. He even wanted marty to draft Moss rather than R. Gardner in 01.

In short, if Snyder is willing to give real control of the football operation to a gm, he's got to fire Vinny, even if vinny isn't really to blame for much of the current mess (though I know that's debatable).

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

I've come around to be in the fire vinny camp recently, though I don't think he can be blamed for most of the dysfunction. As Wilbon has said, if they'd listened to vinny a few times they might be in better shape.

I'm more of the opinion that vinny's relationship w/the danny is one that can't be conducive to an objective mgmt. structure. It seems by all accounts that they are too close for Vinny to actually 'run' the team as GM. Were the wr picks in 08 all his doing? Maybe the specific players were, but JLC made a good point that Snyder has for years been enammored w/ WRs. He even wanted marty to draft Moss rather than R. Gardner in 01.

In short, if Snyder is willing to give real control of the football operation to a gm, he's got to fire Vinny, even if vinny isn't really to blame for much of the current mess (though I know that's debatable).

I think it has been Vinny's call the past two years and all signs point to that (minus the QB pursuit in the offseason). Since you really can't change owners, then the next logical thing would be for Vinny to go.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think it has been Vinny's call the past two years and all signs point to that (minus the QB pursuit in the offseason). Since you really can't change owners, then the next logical thing would be for Vinny to go.

Agreed on that.

On paper it's suppossedly been vinny's call, it's just about impossible for us to know how much influence Snyder has had on his decisions. If it's true that they are friends, or at least racquetball partners, then I don't see how they could not discuss draft strategy & personell a lot.

In fairness to Vinny his drafting the last 2 years might turn out to be alright. The jury is still out on Davis, Kelly & Thomas, but you need 3 years to really assess those guys. If they turn out to be decent, I think you can say vinny's draft record the last 2 years is at least avg. He did get Horton & Mitchell in the 7th, though his one o line pick, Rinehart, is not looking too good. I know the o line wasn't addressed nearly enough, but at the same time this team had several holes to fill when he took over in 08.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Agreed on that.

On paper it's suppossedly been vinny's call, it's just about impossible for us to know how much influence Snyder has had on his decisions. If it's true that they are friends, or at least racquetball partners, then I don't see how they could not discuss draft strategy & personell a lot.

In fairness to Vinny his drafting the last 2 years might turn out to be alright. The jury is still out on Davis, Kelly & Thomas, but you need 3 years to really assess those guys. If they turn out to be decent, I think you can say vinny's draft record the last 2 years is at least avg. He did get Horton & Mitchell in the 7th, though his one o line pick, Rinehart, is not looking too good. I know the o line wasn't addressed nearly enough, but at the same time this team had several holes to fill when he took over in 08.

I think some of the folks that have better access to information than your average fan (i.e. Smootsmack) have said that it has been pretty much Vinny's call on a lot of things, except for salary negotiation. While I do think that Vinny has made some pretty good draft picks (i.e. Orakpo, Horton, Mitchell, etc., etc.) he has completely overlooked the the offensive line. I mean he has built the defensive line (Orakpo, Jarmon, AH), but he should've had a similar approach to the o-line.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think some of the folks that have better access to information than your average fan (i.e. Smootsmack) have said that it has been pretty much Vinny's call on a lot of things, except for salary negotiation. While I do think that Vinny has made some pretty good draft picks (i.e. Orakpo, Horton, Mitchell, etc., etc.) he has completely overlooked the the offensive line. I mean he has built the defensive line (Orakpo, Jarmon, AH), but he should've had a similar approach to the o-line.

Yeah, taking Thomas, Kelly and Davis when we only needed 1 WR was a kick in the nuts. He could have taken Thomas and 2 linemen (Marko in the later rounds was a steal). WRs can be found at every turn. Look at Chris Chambers. He's signed by the Chefs and suits up a few days later and has 70 yards and 2 TDs.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think some of the folks that have better access to information than your average fan (i.e. Smootsmack) have said that it has been pretty much Vinny's call on a lot of things, except for salary negotiation. While I do think that Vinny has made some pretty good draft picks (i.e. Orakpo, Horton, Mitchell, etc., etc.) he has completely overlooked the the offensive line. I mean he has built the defensive line (Orakpo, Jarmon, AH), but he should've had a similar approach to the o-line.

I never liked that all 3 2nd rounders in 08 were pass catchers, but I did understand Vinny's explanation. He didn't like the o linemen that were available after they'd traded down (ironic that Atl. traded up w/us to get a LT). What I really didn't like was that in the late rounds there were no O linemen selected the last 2 years.

Still, Vinny had an approach for the o line, it relied on Dock and signing Ray Willis. Only one of those happened. By the way his drafts have gone it looks as if he tries to draft by position in blocks, e.g. 2 wrs, 2 LBs. Maybe it was (is) in his 3 year plan to address the o line in this year's draft.

I'm not so much for getting rid of vinny because of his draft picks (though there's plenty to not like there) as much as I am for starting on a clean slate w/a new gm & structure to let him work.

[SBXVII]

The clock is ticking......(tick, tick, tick). The count down has started.....8 games down 8 to go. tick, tick, tick.

[MTK]

If Snyder is smart he'll make sure Vinny is out of the public eye altogether, and behind the scenes he needs to be completely out of the picture when it comes to personnel decisions. Otherwise it's mission = fail and there will always be the perception, real or not, that Vinny is still involved.

[JoeRedskin]

^^ I agree. I think Vinny has done some things fine, but that he is in over his head.

[Paintrain]

NOT to come across as a Vinny apologist but I believe, as I have said before, that he had a 3 year plan. There were 3 glaring holes on the team he inherited from Gibbs, WR, DL, OL. Year One, address the WR issue. It was a decent year for 'good' receivers in '08 as highlighted by no 1st round WR picks, but a plethora in the 2nd round. Of those 2nd round WR, Donnie Avery, Eddie Royal, Desean Jackson have all paid dividends. James Hardy, Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Limas Sweed and Mario Manningham did not. More specific to our needs, we needed a big WR. Well, every big WR has been a flop while clones of what we already have, small & fast WR, have been successful.

DL was the next biggest need. Year Two, he addressed that with 3 players, Haynesworth, Orakpo (although they are playing him at LB) and Jarmon. I feel good about those 3 players, no complaints.

IF VC were allowed to keep his job, I'd expect nearly a full draft to be focused on the OL. Coming into the season, even if healthy, he had to know it was curtains for Thomas, Rabach and maybe Samuels. I'd bet he was planning to go heavy on OL in April '10.

Now, just because I think he had a plan, it doesn't mean it was a GOOD plan. It was horribly flawed, anticipating no injuries and immediate dividends from your draft picks, a terrible strategy. Also, if Chad Rinehart had turned into Dockery (also a 3rd round pick) I think we'd be much less critical about the overall state of the OL.

He had a bad plan and seemed to execute it poorly by picking bad players. Hopefully he won't be around to see the plan through.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

NOT to come across as a Vinny apologist but I believe, as I have said before, that he had a 3 year plan. There were 3 glaring holes on the team he inherited from Gibbs, WR, DL, OL. Year One, address the WR issue. It was a decent year for 'good' receivers in '08 as highlighted by no 1st round WR picks, but a plethora in the 2nd round. Of those 2nd round WR, Donnie Avery, Eddie Royal, Desean Jackson have all paid dividends. James Hardy, Devin Thomas, Malcolm Kelly, Limas Sweed and Mario Manningham did not. More specific to our needs, we needed a big WR. Well, every big WR has been a flop while clones of what we already have, small & fast WR, have been successful.

DL was the next biggest need. Year Two, he addressed that with 3 players, Haynesworth, Orakpo (although they are playing him at LB) and Jarmon. I feel good about those 3 players, no complaints.

IF VC were allowed to keep his job, I'd expect nearly a full draft to be focused on the OL. Coming into the season, even if healthy, he had to know it was curtains for Thomas, Rabach and maybe Samuels. I'd bet he was planning to go heavy on OL in April '10.

Now, just because I think he had a plan, it doesn't mean it was a GOOD plan. It was horribly flawed, anticipating no injuries and immediate dividends from your draft picks, a terrible strategy. Also, if Chad Rinehart had turned into Dockery (also a 3rd round pick) I think we'd be much less critical about the overall state of the OL.

He had a bad plan and seemed to execute it poorly by picking bad players. Hopefully he won't be around to see the plan through.

I think you are right, and I will add that he counted too much on Jansen and Samuels. I think he expected they would anchor the line with some ability. Imagine if those three 2nd round picks had been OL, and this year we were going in looking for the qb/wr's. I think we would have been a completely different team, and maybe both Zorn and Vinny would be safe. BUT, he didn't and that responsibility lies squarely on VC's shoulders.