26-27-60 QB formula

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Video: Gruden QB camp - Newton sequel - AFC South Blog - ESPN


I"m going on record right now. If this kid becomes a legit QB in the NFL, I will buy everybody on this board a drink.

I was watching last night and thinking there is no way i would pick this kid in the first 2 rounds of the draft. I put it at a 5% chance that he's successful in the nfl as a qb.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

I was watching last night and thinking there is no way i would pick this kid in the first 2 rounds of the draft. I put it at a 5% chance that he's successful in the nfl as a qb.

He's going to have a huge learning curve when it comes to learning a playbook and operating an NFL offense that's for sure.

[musicmaster45]

i used to have a strong faith in locker. now trade with new england or san diego for a second round pick where we get dalton sounds fantastic

[Dirtbag59]

Blaine Gabbert: 42 - Memorable Wonderlic Scores - Photos - SI.com

Vick - 20
Vince Young - 6 then 15
Ryan Leaf -27
Dan Marino -15
Brett Favre - 22
Peyton Manning - 28
Alex Smith - 40
Donovan McNabb - 14
Tom Brady - 33
Aaron Rodgers - 35
Tim Tebow - 22
Terry Bradshaw - 16
Randall Cunningham - 14

[Dirtbag59]

Interesting that Jay Cutler was one of the notable exceptions. As was Ben Rothelisberger if we want to talk about Cam's chances of NFL success. Vick was also an exception.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

Vick was also an exception.

Not hardly. Up until last year, Vick has been horrible as a QB.

Michael Vick: Career Stats at NFL.com

He had a grand total of one year where he threw for over 2,500 yards and had a QB rating over 78. (81)

I'm sorry, he's the DeAngelo Hall of the QB position. He's hyped up because fans see him avoiding tackles on ESPN and think that's the mark of a good QB.

Vick the running back on the other hand is very good. Too bad he plays the QB position.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Not hardly. Up until last year, Vick has been horrible as a QB.

Michael Vick: Career Stats at NFL.com

He had a grand total of one year where he threw for over 2,500 yards and had a QB rating over 78. (81)

I'm sorry, he's the DeAngelo Hall of the QB position. He's hyped up because fans see him avoiding tackles on ESPN and think that's the mark of a good QB.

Vick the running back on the other hand is very good. Too bad he plays the QB position.

I'm AWARE NC Skins! I've liked lived in Atlanta for like a good while now, ya know, like totally. I like know how much he used to suck.The point is he's found a way to......unsuck? Thereby qualifying him as an exception to the rule. Of course he had to see the light for our division rival. Thanks Vick, you're the gift that keeps giving.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

I'm AWARE NC Skins! I've liked lived in Atlanta for like a good while now, ya know, like totally. I like know how much he used to suck.The point is he's found a way to......unsuck? Thereby qualifying him as an exception to the rule. Of course he had to see the light for our division rival. Thanks Vick, you're the gift that keeps giving.

I don't think Vick sucked, I think Vick was sometimes in the wrong system. The other times he failed to wait for the play to develope or simply decided to make the play on his own. In other words if Vick was more of a team player the team might have gotten farther but it seemed like he was a one man show. Other teams knew if they wanted to stop the Falcons all they had to do was stop or contain Vick.

Unfortunatly he's older and has become wiser and knows he can't do everything himself so he is now finally relying on teamates to help him out.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

I'm AWARE NC Skins! I've liked lived in Atlanta for like a good while now, ya know, like totally. I like know how much he used to suck.The point is he's found a way to......unsuck? Thereby qualifying him as an exception to the rule. Of course he had to see the light for our division rival. Thanks Vick, you're the gift that keeps giving.

Bottomline Vick has won where ever he has been, that tends not to show up in individual stats. Those Atlanta teams he won with were borderline horrible. Thats always the bullsh*t excuse...yeah vick sucks blah blah blah, he keeps showing up leading teams to the playoffs, weird?

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Bottomline Vick has won where ever he has been, that tends not to show up in individual stats. Those Atlanta teams he won with were borderline horrible. Thats always the bullsh*t excuse...yeah vick sucks blah blah blah, he keeps showing up leading teams to the playoffs, weird?

Great point. Winning does not always show up on the stat sheet. In fact some of the WR's and Qb's with incredible stats are on losing teams that have to pass all the time because they are always behind or are one dimensional.
The Denver Broncos of the last couple of years come to mind. If you throw the ball every down and lose, who cares if you have the #1 WR stats?

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Bottomline Vick has won where ever he has been, that tends not to show up in individual stats. Those Atlanta teams he won with were borderline horrible. Thats always the bullsh*t excuse...yeah vick sucks blah blah blah, he keeps showing up leading teams to the playoffs, weird?

You mean the same teams that led the league in rushing and had an above average defense? No, you're right. It was Vick and those ESPN highlights that carried them to glory...lol

It's funny, that basically the same team that Vick played with did so much better with Matt Ryan (11-5 in fact). Wonder why that is?

Child please.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Not hardly. Up until last year, Vick has been horrible as a QB.

Michael Vick: Career Stats at NFL.com

He had a grand total of one year where he threw for over 2,500 yards and had a QB rating over 78. (81)

I'm sorry, he's the DeAngelo Hall of the QB position. He's hyped up because fans see him avoiding tackles on ESPN and think that's the mark of a good QB.

Vick the running back on the other hand is very good. Too bad he plays the QB position.

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

You mean the same teams that led the league in rushing and had an above average defense? No, you're right. It was Vick and those ESPN highlights that carried them to glory...lol

It's funny, that basically the same team that Vick played with did so much better with Matt Ryan (11-5 in fact). Wonder why that is?

Child please.

Um what?

Vick was a horrible QB?

Beating the Packers at Lambeau to go to NFC championship game ring a bell?

Horrible.
2x Pro Bowl.
Horrible.
Winner.
Horrible.

Revisionist history Island must be a great place.

I used to live in ATL and Mike Vick wasthe team.
Ryan is part of a good team.

[GTripp0012]

I haven't seen a lot of solid research on the predicitive value of the wonderlic. I know it used to have none, but it does seem like players who have performed poorly on the wonderlic are also being treated tougher by the NFL coaches when they get there (see: Young, Vince). So perhaps we're reaching a point where the wonderlic matters for quarterbacks.

I still don't buy it though. If the head coach is going to hold a bias against players who are...slower to pick up the offense, then fire the coach, not the player.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I haven't seen a lot of solid research on the predicitive value of the wonderlic. I know it used to have none, but it does seem like players who have performed poorly on the wonderlic are also being treated tougher by the NFL coaches when they get there (see: Young, Vince). So perhaps we're reaching a point where the wonderlic matters for quarterbacks.

I still don't buy it though. If the head coach is going to hold a bias against players who are...slower to pick up the offense, then fire the coach, not the player.

I agree with you, however I think some QB's picked up by teams are picked up because of their ability and not looked at if they would fit the scheme the team runs.

and on another note how many HC's who pick up a QB build the scheme around the QB? I think when you see a really bad team go out and pick up a QB and the next year they are in the playoff hunt I start thinking the HC did a good job of changing up his scheme to what the QB does best. Then there is the HC that simply say the QB needs to learn the plays. I think the latter is ok for a team who already has a starting QB and picks one up in the draft to ride the bench a few yrs to learn the play calls.

[takethecake]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I agree with you, however I think some QB's picked up by teams are picked up because of their ability and not looked at if they would fit the scheme the team runs.

and on another note how many HC's who pick up a QB build the scheme around the QB? I think when you see a really bad team go out and pick up a QB and the next year they are in the playoff hunt I start thinking the HC did a good job of changing up his scheme to what the QB does best. Then there is the HC that simply say the QB needs to learn the plays. I think the latter is ok for a team who already has a starting QB and picks one up in the draft to ride the bench a few yrs to learn the play calls.

Interesting you should mention that because McNabb and Kyle Shanahan illustrate some of the scenarios that presents. Trying to explain why McNabb didn't perform that well last season, you could say it was McNabb's ineptitude at learning a new playbook, the Shanahan's "inflexibility" in accommodating him, or other factors (questionable OL, no receivers, etc).

The real question: assuming you can attribute some of McNabb's struggles to having trouble learning the playbook, could that have been predicted based on his Wonderlic score? Or could Andy Reid have predicted McNabb's poor clock management abilities?

IMO, way too many factors to say definitively that there's a clear link between the two. But at the same time, it's definitely in the back of my mind during talent selection. I think GMs should pay attention to the 26-27-60 forumula.