Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

So here is a question. What we've seen from Robert in a normal pro-style offense has been from mediocre to downright bad.


Providing a new coach comes in, how long are you willing to give him before competition comes into play? This isn't going to be his rookie year, this will be going on his 3rd year. So how long are you willing to invest time into him before you say enough? What if we start out the season pretty much like we did this past?



That said, do you really want to trade Kirk? Why not keep him around until after year 3 so if Griff doesn't click next year, we have a possible solution at the QB spot.

Neither should be traded until after the 2014 season. Griff should get his full off season and go into the off season as the starter. However, if he's outperformed in these mini camps, OTA's and training camp by Cousins then he shouldn't go into next season as the starter. If it's vice versa then Griff should start. The best guy should play. End of discussion. I'm sure everyone is tired of losing, so play whoever gives you the best chance to win. I think whoever coaches the team will feel the same way.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Neither should be traded until after the 2014 season. Griff should get his full off season and go into the off season as the starter. However, if he's outperformed in these mini camps, OTA's and training camp by Cousins then he shouldn't go into next season as the starter. If it's vice versa then Griff should start. The best guy should play. End of discussion. I'm sure everyone is tired of losing, so play whoever gives you the best chance to win. I think whoever coaches the team will feel the same way.

I agree there is no way we should trade away KC at this point. Like you, I say list RG as the starter and let KC push him to keep the job.

[ashvirtually]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

So here is a question. What we've seen from Robert in a normal pro-style offense has been from mediocre to downright bad.


Providing a new coach comes in, how long are you willing to give him before competition comes into play? This isn't going to be his rookie year, this will be going on his 3rd year. So how long are you willing to invest time into him before you say enough? What if we start out the season pretty much like we did this past?



That said, do you really want to trade Kirk? Why not keep him around until after year 3 so if Griff doesn't click next year, we have a possible solution at the QB spot.

Gruden was talking about Luck, Wilson, Robert and Colin two Mondays ago on MNF and I think he was right: he said Luck and Wilson are great QBs who are getting better, while Colin and Robert are great athletes trying to become great quarterbacks.

In hindsight, I think Robert probably should have been on IR at the start of the season and not brought back until after the BYE (and I put the blame for that not being done squarely on Shanahan's shoulders), but what's done is done and we have to move on. It was insane for Robert, but ESPECIALLY Shanahan 'cause he should KNOW better, to think he could just come back into the NFL with zero playing time without any issues.

That said, no one here or in the media has demonstrated anything concrete to make me believe Robert is not willing to put in the effort and time to become better. All we have is innuendo, character assassination and the dispirited BS that's come from him and the team having such an awful season, full of sound and fury but signifying nothing.

You give Robert his offseason. You give Robert time to learn and grow. You give him time to work on his mechanics and his rapport with his receivers and his pocket presence and all the things he didn't get to work on for the last two years. You keep Captain Kirk because it's a rare thing to have a solid backup QB. You fix the line and the secondary and get a gotdamn new inside linebacker (because I'm sick and tired of seeing the back of Fletcher's jersey) since we'll finally have the money free to do so. You let him play the full preseason.

And then you start Robert in 2014. You give it eight games. And if there isn't measurable improvement, you pull the trigger and start Captain Kirk and go from there. You don't trade EITHER until after the 2014 season.

But you don't damn him for the chutzpah all great athletes have and throw him under a figurative bus because he's had a bad season following a major knee injury where he spent the entire offseason just trying to be able to play at all. Not after he broke his body for the Washington Redskins. Not after he set NFL records and won RotY his first season. Not after we spent a fortune to get him. You wait and see and you give him his fair chance to get better.

And not for nothing - the same thing happened to him at Baylor the year after he hurt himself. He had a terrible 2010 season following his knee injury. And then the next year ... well, he was the eventual Heisman winner.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

So here is a question. What we've seen from Robert in a normal pro-style offense has been from mediocre to downright bad.


Providing a new coach comes in, how long are you willing to give him before competition comes into play? This isn't going to be his rookie year, this will be going on his 3rd year. So how long are you willing to invest time into him before you say enough? What if we start out the season pretty much like we did this past?



That said, do you really want to trade Kirk? Why not keep him around until after year 3 so if Griff doesn't click next year, we have a possible solution at the QB spot.

I don't mean to crap all over the question, because it's a really strong discussion point. But the question isn't relevant. Griffin doesn't need more time. He needs superiors who know what they are doing and have the best interests of the franchise in mind.

The answer to your question is a practical one. Mike Shanahan is going to take the fall for the failure of this team. He deserves it of course, but even if he didn't he's taking the fall. He's been here the longest, he's done the least to help, and he can't come back. Griffin gets (and deserves) a total pass.

Thing is, Griffin knows how this game works: after the guy who brought you in gets fired, you're the next one to get held responsible. So the organization has to turn around now, or Griffin can't continue to be the quarterback. He's going to get the length of the next coaches' tenure to win here. In three years, if the Redskins look up and haven't won yet, they'll change the QB and the coach.

That's how the game is played.

Thing is, five years probably isn't enough time to fully develop a quarterback from scratch. Brady was in what, year 8 (2007), when Belichick took the training wheels off for good. Peyton Manning was in year...7 (2004)? Eli was in year 8 (2011). Brees was on his second organization. Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco have gotten the training wheels taken off and...well...you can see that the structure they had before may have been beneficial for them.

You don't need to stick with a QB who isn't progressing and Griffin is no exception. So if he's worse next year than this year, there's no reason to beat ones head against the wall any longer. But he's going to look somewhat better in a more QB friendly system, and he's a ways away from his peak NFL seasons.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't mean to crap all over the question, because it's a really strong discussion point. But the question isn't relevant. Griffin doesn't need more time. He needs superiors who know what they are doing and have the best interests of the franchise in mind.

The answer to your question is a practical one. Mike Shanahan is going to take the fall for the failure of this team. He deserves it of course, but even if he didn't he's taking the fall. He's been here the longest, he's done the least to help, and he can't come back. Griffin gets (and deserves) a total pass.

Thing is, Griffin knows how this game works: after the guy who brought you in gets fired, you're the next one to get held responsible. So the organization has to turn around now, or Griffin can't continue to be the quarterback. He's going to get the length of the next coaches' tenure to win here. In three years, if the Redskins look up and haven't won yet, they'll change the QB and the coach.

That's how the game is played.

Thing is, five years probably isn't enough time to fully develop a quarterback from scratch. Brady was in what, year 8 (2007), when Belichick took the training wheels off for good. Peyton Manning was in year...7 (2004)? Eli was in year 8 (2011). Brees was on his second organization. Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco have gotten the training wheels taken off and...well...you can see that the structure they had before may have been beneficial for them.

You don't need to stick with a QB who isn't progressing and Griffin is no exception. So if he's worse next year than this year, there's no reason to beat ones head against the wall any longer. But he's going to look somewhat better in a more QB friendly system, and he's a ways away from his peak NFL seasons.

Could not be more wrong here. Brady and Manning were running pro offenses in their first full years under center and passing the ball, as was Andrew Luck. There were no "training wheels" as you put it. Wilson, Griff, Locker, EJ Manuel, Ponder?? I think those guys needed to start out with conservative type offenses.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Could not be more wrong here. Brady and Manning were running pro offenses in their first full years under center and passing the ball, as was Andrew Luck. There were no "training wheels" as you put it. Wilson, Griff, Locker, EJ Manuel, Ponder?? I think those guys needed to start out with conservative type offenses.

The offenses Manning and Brady are running today were not considered NFL offenses when they broke into the league.

Luck is certainly a historical anomaly in terms of what responsibilities he received right from the first game (maybe the only guy in the last 20 years to start Game 1 with the full playbook), but he also hasn't exactly taken the league by storm in terms of performance.

[Hog1]

If you base all your decisions on numbers..........it is a blessing you will not be making any decisions regarding the team.........

[SmootSmack]

You forget about Rex?

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

You forget about Rex?

Nah, just chose not to include him. I meant as a primary backup but yeah Rex fits that mold.

[DynamiteRave]

Need to Know: Shanahan says Redskins’ offense did not change for Cousins | Rich Tandler's Real Redskins

Just some notes about Shanny's presser yesterday, in case it wasn't talked about.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Need to Know: Shanahan says Redskins’ offense did not change for Cousins | Rich Tandler's Real Redskins

Just some notes about Shanny's presser yesterday, in case it wasn't talked about.

LOL. That is such a fun play on words.

I think we can all agree that the offense we saw last year which took the team to the playoffs was not the exact same offense we saw two years prior.

and.... I'm telling you this years offense is not the same as last years offense. From what I'm seeing. Yes some of last years plays are involved, but it does not look exactly the same. I see less read option plays.

Which has led me to believe that while RG3 was mobile his first year the coaching staff used what RG3 knew... the Baylor offense. Now that RG3 is hurt and his speed has dropped due to the injury they have used less read options this year and have tried to keep RG3 in the pocket more.

So yea, the offense didn't change... this year between the two QB's, but it did change between the two years. I think DS has a lot of decisions to make, does he want the Redskins to run the Spread/Read Option or get away from it. Why is this important? cause RG3 is obviously better in the Spread/Read Option because of speed, but Cousins has better pocket presence and plays better in the traditional WC offense.

Can RG3 develop into a pocket passer and be good in a traditional NFL offense? sure, maybe. I say maybe cause look what happened to J.Campbell. We drafted him in the 1st round also, he was supposed to be our "Franchise" QB, he didn't have the mechanics down, and his pocket presence was bad. To be honest that sounds just like RG3 except we gave up a ton of picks for RG3.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Hog1

If you base all your decisions on numbers..........it is a blessing you will not be making any decisions regarding the team.........

Yeah because than someone might add up all of Shannys wins and losses and shitcan his dumb.....
Hey wait a minute?

[SBXVII]

Just some more light reading. LOL.

Griffin’s stubbornness was crystallized by a moment in a recent game. After he threw an errant pass and the offensive series ended, he came to the sideline and talked with quarterback coach Matt LaFleur, who was in the coaches' box (not on the sideline as originally reported here).

LaFleur, a former quarterback who never played in the NFL but has coached in the league for six years, began explaining to Griffin that part of the problem with the throw was his poor footwork, an issue that many observers around the league have noted about Griffin as he has struggled this season. As LaFleur continued to talk, Griffin grew impatient and brushed off the instruction.

“I just have to make that throw,” Griffin said, according to two team sources who were aware of the conversation. The reaction was not considered mean-spirited, but it was dismissive and spoke to the larger issue of how difficult Griffin has become to coach this season as he has struggled with physical limitations from his knee injury at the end of the 2012 playoffs.

LaFleur, a former quarterback who never played in the NFL but has coached in the league for six years, began explaining to Griffin that part of the problem with the throw was his poor footwork, an issue that many observers around the league have noted about Griffin as he has struggled this season. As LaFleur continued to talk, Griffin grew impatient and brushed off the instruction.

“I just have to make that throw,” Griffin said, according to two team sources who were aware of the conversation. The reaction was not considered mean-spirited, but it was dismissive and spoke to the larger issue of how difficult Griffin has become to coach this season as he has struggled with physical limitations from his knee injury at the end of the 2012 playoffs.]

In addition, Griffin’s father has increasingly become the kind of nuisance that some people warned NFL executives about before the 2012 draft. In recent weeks, according to two sources close to the situation, the elder Griffin has politicked Snyder to hire Baylor coach Art Briles, who coached the younger Griffin to a Heisman Trophy, to replace Shanahan.

In Griffin’s rookie season in 2012, precision accuracy wasn’t as critical because his speed forced defenses to play him differently and opposing teams hadn’t scouted him thoroughly. Defenses had to play man-to-man coverage in the secondary and bring extra defenders up front to deal with Griffin’s running ability. His reads were much easier.

But as Griffin has struggled to regain his world-class speed and teams have come up with ways to defend him, there has been a significant decline in his performance across the board. His accuracy (from 65.6 to 60.1 percent), TD-to-interception ratio (20-5 to 16-12) and quarterback rating (102.4 to 82.2) have all declined sharply.

“You could see this coming in the offseason with the way he was working,” a team source said this week. “It’s not that he wasn’t working hard. He was. He was working to come back as quickly as he could. But he wasn’t working on the things to become a better (pocket) quarterback. ... Now, we’ve gotten this deep in the season, and he’s still doing things wrong, like his footwork.”

Cousins got off to a strong start toward that end by completing 29 of 45 passes for 381 yards, three touchdowns and two interceptions in Sunday's 27-26 loss to Atlanta. That game matches up with just about any performance by Griffin this season.

Furthermore, the logic of whether to have Griffin play comes down to whether he’ll listen, two team sources said.

“I hear people say that he should just continue to play. But if you just keep doing the wrong things, you’re not getting better,” one of the team sources said. “You just get more accustomed to doing the wrong things.”

But as Shanahan pointed out last week, he only sat Griffin after consulting with Snyder.

“I could have done this without discussing it with Dan, but I wanted him to be a part of a decision this important and understand where I was coming from,” Shanahan said.

Thus, the question now is whether Snyder agrees with some in the organization that he needs to deconstruct some of Griffin’s confidence/arrogance before building it back up. And if so, Snyder needs to decide if Shanahan, who only has one year left on his contract, will be the coach to do the project.

RGIII's Stubbornness and His Father's Interference Bedevil Shanahan, Redskins | Bleacher Report

[DynamiteRave]

I was going to post that same Bleacher Report article, though not for the same reasons; Figured it'd be the leak of the week.

Article talks about how RGII is basically a "stage dad" and that he was the one campaigning for Briles to be brought to coach next year. I'm looking at you SS, any truth to that that you know of?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

I was going to post that same Bleacher Report article, though not for the same reasons; Figured it'd be the leak of the week.

Article talks about how RGII is basically a "stage dad" and that he was the one campaigning for Briles to be brought to coach next year. I'm looking at you SS, any truth to that that you know of?

I have no idea