Execution Sucks!

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-22-2004, 09:03 PM

Skinsguy,

I appreciate that you are loyal to Gibbs through thick and thin. I also appreciate that you have conceded that someof the blame rests on Gibbs' shoulders.

However, you seem to have this instinctive, emotional response to any criticism, however valid and well reasoned, of Gibbs. You've denied that Gibbs' playcalling was overly conservative. If that wasn't conservative, what is? Staying in the locker room?

You've also come down quite hard on the players, but you might want to look into who is heading up player personnel decisions (not only who we went after, but who starts). BTW, it would be Gibbs.

Most of us agree that the players AND Gibbs share in the blame, but I can sense this borderline rage when any thoughtful critique of Gibbs is made. Yes, I remember what Gibbs did for us in his first tenure. Yes, I have faith in him. But I note the good and the bad. I simply don't understand the reluctance to note both.

If an Eagle fan told me Gibbs' playcalling was too conservative, I'd tell him to f--- off. But, we're all 'Skins fans here and I think "in-house" debate and criticism is good and fun.

As for my anticipatory rebuttal:
I don't know as much about football as Gibbs does, but then again, none of us here do. So, to say that I cannot question Gibbs' moves because I don't have the resume he does isn't (IMHO) a valid criticism of my criticisms.

skinsguy · 11-22-2004, 10:13 PM

Gee, I had no idea that if I didn't go along with everybody else's opinion that I would be subject to public scrutiny. I have no idea why you keep insisting that I have reluctance to note that both the players and the coaches are responsible for our losing season; especially since I have already stated so. I also don't understand why you scrutinize my opinion on the players when you and others have came down just as hard on the coach if not harder. Furthermore, I understand that Joe Gibbs made a mistake getting Mark Brunell, but ya know, I'm not going to burn him at the stake for that. He wanted a vet in there, he got who he thought could lead the team. But, as we all have witnessed, its not just Brunell that has been the problem playerwise. Its been the receivers dropping passes (look at SS' player stats that will back up what I have been saying)....receivers that I would like to add were already in Washington before Joe Gibbs even considered going back into coaching.

As far the playcalling vs the Eagles...I understand why Gibbs called the game as conservative as he did. Think about it: Ramsey's performance in relief of Brunell this year has been horrible as well as the preseason. I am sure Ramsey needed a conservative game and I saw us throwing the ball dowfield alot more than with Brunell. I honestly feel if you guys would be paitent, we'll see Gibbs loosing up the offense more each game...he wants to bring Ramsey up slowly....Gibbs knows Ramsey's ability, but he also knows that Ramsey needs the confidence...once Ramsey has that established..there's no stopping us!

VTSkins897 · 11-22-2004, 10:28 PM

yeh thats true. the key in it all is just the time its going to take to adjust. the only reason i blame gibbs mostly bc, to me, the players performance is a reflection of the head coach. gibbs' teams traditionally do not make these mistakes. its clear that a false start, hold, or a drop is on the player. however, it will ultimately be up to the coach to fix these problems be it by roster adjustments or whatever. since this is gibbs' first year back we cannot expect immediate fixes of course. however at the same time, we have an absolutely poor team. those are the facts and until it's bettered, gibbs deserves, and more importantly can handle this criticism. if no one is there to criticize him, hows he gonna get better? as skins fans we have longed for next year for 10 yrs. so until i actually am happy with a current season, im gonna let the "constructive criticism" fly ya know?

skinsguy · 11-22-2004, 11:23 PM

Well your intitled to your opinion and your criticism....just like I am intitled to mine as well. I hear ya and what you say is true, when players are making stupid mistakes it is a reflection on the coaching. I don't believe Gibbs is unaware of this. I, along with everybody else has waited for next year and believe me, from enjoying all of those years watching the Redskins win on a consistant bases, its frustrating to see where our franchise has came from to what it is now. I'm sure to guys like you that we not old enough to enjoy the glory years, it's probably just as frustrating if not more...but one thing I feel us older guys do have is that we've witnessed what Gibbs can do and when things are working right, they are awesome!! Keep in mind of his first year as head coach back in 1980, the team went 0-5 before ending the season at 8-8. Its still possible for us to get a winning streak going and at least mimic that first season. There are teams we can beat and we did prove that with a little more offensive production (score wise) we can hang with Eagles. This is a good team and I honestly feel we are just a few adjustments away...things are not as bad as 3-7 would indicate.

skinsguy · 11-22-2004, 11:26 PM

I have been hard on the players, namely the WRs because I feel they do have the talent and potiental to play better and to be more consistant than what they have shown us..and I am frustrated with that fact. They probably do have the potiential to be the best WR corps in the league, but they need to prove it.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 11-22-2004, 11:31 PM

I didn't mean to sound like a d--k Skinsguy. You are entitled to your opinion. We just disagree I guess. Oh well.

skinsguy · 11-22-2004, 11:33 PM

No harm done....

VTSkins897 · 11-22-2004, 11:52 PM

yeh i understand. all i want are the glory years back. there is no lack of faith in gibbs, simply a criticism of the present. the past was great, the present sucks. the only thing we dont know is the future but it'll happen... lord knows the skins and the fans and even danny boy deserve it

SkinsRock · 11-23-2004, 01:48 PM

Who is to blame? The Washington Redskins. All of 'em, from top to bottom. But as in any organization, who is responsible for the performance of it? The person in charge: Joe Gibbs. He has said that he should be blamed. Everything this team does is a reflection on his leadership, and while they are struggling, he deserves the blame, just as he will deserve the credit when they start winning.
The players are responsible for sub-par execution and penalties, but it is the coaches' job to correct that.
The play calling in this game was questionable...most definitely. It is understandable that he would call a conservative game, but running the same play -- the type of play that usually only works well if called just a couple times a game -- over and over just isn't the way to do that. Not to mention practically abandoning the running game, or not adjusting it to what the defense was doing. Usually "conservative" play calling entails leaning on the running game, which considering they only ran for around 50 yards, did NOT happen.
Now I have faith in Gibbs, and truly believe he will adapt and get the team winning, but it is just taking a lot longer than anticipated.

CrazyCanuck · 11-23-2004, 03:09 PM

Some good points about blame. Not only will Joe Gibbs accept the blame for the team's failure - I think he WANTS the blame. He'll always put it on himself first before any of his players.

With Brunell it got to the point where we were more angry at Gibbs for sticking with him then we were at Brunell himself.

Same thing this week. Everyone is calling for Gibbs head for the playcalling. While the criticism is not unjust, I don't think Gibbs minds that much. He'd much rather us cursing him out for the playcalling than cursing Ramsey out for a poor performance.

11-22-2004, 09:03 PM	#46
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 8,317	Skinsguy, I appreciate that you are loyal to Gibbs through thick and thin. I also appreciate that you have conceded that someof the blame rests on Gibbs' shoulders. However, you seem to have this instinctive, emotional response to any criticism, however valid and well reasoned, of Gibbs. You've denied that Gibbs' playcalling was overly conservative. If that wasn't conservative, what is? Staying in the locker room? You've also come down quite hard on the players, but you might want to look into who is heading up player personnel decisions (not only who we went after, but who starts). BTW, it would be Gibbs. Most of us agree that the players AND Gibbs share in the blame, but I can sense this borderline rage when any thoughtful critique of Gibbs is made. Yes, I remember what Gibbs did for us in his first tenure. Yes, I have faith in him. But I note the good and the bad. I simply don't understand the reluctance to note both. If an Eagle fan told me Gibbs' playcalling was too conservative, I'd tell him to f--- off. But, we're all 'Skins fans here and I think "in-house" debate and criticism is good and fun. As for my anticipatory rebuttal: I don't know as much about football as Gibbs does, but then again, none of us here do. So, to say that I cannot question Gibbs' moves because I don't have the resume he does isn't (IMHO) a valid criticism of my criticisms.

11-22-2004, 10:13 PM	#47
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Gee, I had no idea that if I didn't go along with everybody else's opinion that I would be subject to public scrutiny. I have no idea why you keep insisting that I have reluctance to note that both the players and the coaches are responsible for our losing season; especially since I have already stated so. I also don't understand why you scrutinize my opinion on the players when you and others have came down just as hard on the coach if not harder. Furthermore, I understand that Joe Gibbs made a mistake getting Mark Brunell, but ya know, I'm not going to burn him at the stake for that. He wanted a vet in there, he got who he thought could lead the team. But, as we all have witnessed, its not just Brunell that has been the problem playerwise. Its been the receivers dropping passes (look at SS' player stats that will back up what I have been saying)....receivers that I would like to add were already in Washington before Joe Gibbs even considered going back into coaching. As far the playcalling vs the Eagles...I understand why Gibbs called the game as conservative as he did. Think about it: Ramsey's performance in relief of Brunell this year has been horrible as well as the preseason. I am sure Ramsey needed a conservative game and I saw us throwing the ball dowfield alot more than with Brunell. I honestly feel if you guys would be paitent, we'll see Gibbs loosing up the offense more each game...he wants to bring Ramsey up slowly....Gibbs knows Ramsey's ability, but he also knows that Ramsey needs the confidence...once Ramsey has that established..there's no stopping us!

11-22-2004, 10:28 PM	#48
VTSkins897 Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 42 Posts: 890	yeh thats true. the key in it all is just the time its going to take to adjust. the only reason i blame gibbs mostly bc, to me, the players performance is a reflection of the head coach. gibbs' teams traditionally do not make these mistakes. its clear that a false start, hold, or a drop is on the player. however, it will ultimately be up to the coach to fix these problems be it by roster adjustments or whatever. since this is gibbs' first year back we cannot expect immediate fixes of course. however at the same time, we have an absolutely poor team. those are the facts and until it's bettered, gibbs deserves, and more importantly can handle this criticism. if no one is there to criticize him, hows he gonna get better? as skins fans we have longed for next year for 10 yrs. so until i actually am happy with a current season, im gonna let the "constructive criticism" fly ya know?

11-22-2004, 11:23 PM	#49
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Well your intitled to your opinion and your criticism....just like I am intitled to mine as well. I hear ya and what you say is true, when players are making stupid mistakes it is a reflection on the coaching. I don't believe Gibbs is unaware of this. I, along with everybody else has waited for next year and believe me, from enjoying all of those years watching the Redskins win on a consistant bases, its frustrating to see where our franchise has came from to what it is now. I'm sure to guys like you that we not old enough to enjoy the glory years, it's probably just as frustrating if not more...but one thing I feel us older guys do have is that we've witnessed what Gibbs can do and when things are working right, they are awesome!! Keep in mind of his first year as head coach back in 1980, the team went 0-5 before ending the season at 8-8. Its still possible for us to get a winning streak going and at least mimic that first season. There are teams we can beat and we did prove that with a little more offensive production (score wise) we can hang with Eagles. This is a good team and I honestly feel we are just a few adjustments away...things are not as bad as 3-7 would indicate.

11-22-2004, 11:26 PM	#50
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	I have been hard on the players, namely the WRs because I feel they do have the talent and potiental to play better and to be more consistant than what they have shown us..and I am frustrated with that fact. They probably do have the potiential to be the best WR corps in the league, but they need to prove it.

11-22-2004, 11:31 PM	#51
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 8,317	I didn't mean to sound like a d--k Skinsguy. You are entitled to your opinion. We just disagree I guess. Oh well.

11-22-2004, 11:33 PM	#52
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	No harm done....

11-22-2004, 11:52 PM	#53
VTSkins897 Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 42 Posts: 890	yeh i understand. all i want are the glory years back. there is no lack of faith in gibbs, simply a criticism of the present. the past was great, the present sucks. the only thing we dont know is the future but it'll happen... lord knows the skins and the fans and even danny boy deserve it

11-23-2004, 01:48 PM	#54
SkinsRock Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Crofton, MD Age: 55 Posts: 907	Who is to blame? The Washington Redskins. All of 'em, from top to bottom. But as in any organization, who is responsible for the performance of it? The person in charge: Joe Gibbs. He has said that he should be blamed. Everything this team does is a reflection on his leadership, and while they are struggling, he deserves the blame, just as he will deserve the credit when they start winning. The players are responsible for sub-par execution and penalties, but it is the coaches' job to correct that. The play calling in this game was questionable...most definitely. It is understandable that he would call a conservative game, but running the same play -- the type of play that usually only works well if called just a couple times a game -- over and over just isn't the way to do that. Not to mention practically abandoning the running game, or not adjusting it to what the defense was doing. Usually "conservative" play calling entails leaning on the running game, which considering they only ran for around 50 yards, did NOT happen. Now I have faith in Gibbs, and truly believe he will adapt and get the team winning, but it is just taking a lot longer than anticipated.

11-23-2004, 03:09 PM	#55
CrazyCanuck Serenity Now Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2,008	Some good points about blame. Not only will Joe Gibbs accept the blame for the team's failure - I think he WANTS the blame. He'll always put it on himself first before any of his players. With Brunell it got to the point where we were more angry at Gibbs for sticking with him then we were at Brunell himself. Same thing this week. Everyone is calling for Gibbs head for the playcalling. While the criticism is not unjust, I don't think Gibbs minds that much. He'd much rather us cursing him out for the playcalling than cursing Ramsey out for a poor performance.

Execution Sucks!

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