Should Gibbs Flip The Script: Passing Team Now?

[Crazyhorse1]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Good post. You mention the Gibbs jumbo package and how he loves to run out of this formation more than anything else. Then you talk about how Gibbs/Saunders need to "come up" with complimentary running plays out of the no-huddle/shotgun sets. Saunders has the plays in his arsenal. But I think this is where we've had an issue with the Gibbs/Saunders hybrid. The personnel packages in what Gibbs likes to run from and what Al likes to throw from are very different, so it makes fluidity more difficult. Those no-huddle drives involved very little running (Portis had only 12 carries). Is our O-line athletic enough to handle a few stretch plays and tosses? Portis has the speed for sure. I'm in no way suggesting we eliminate jumbo packages and Sellers packages, I just think it's imperative we mix in the run with this new found passing attack.

I agree going to an all passing game is nuts. We ought to run the ball every four or five plays just to keep our opponents honest. Our running game should consist of surprise stuff with Portis, Betts, and Sellers and scrambles by Campbell.

Also, ARE should pass more often. The guy is seriously good as a passer.

It's going to be years and a few rule changes before a team manages to go anywhere without being able to put up 30 or so points a game.

So be it.

ARE is looking pretty good when we decide to take passing seriously, Cooley is one of the best, and if Moss is back we have a fine group of WR's and a good backup, plus adequate to excellent receivers coming out of the backfield. We also have better pass blocking than run blocking.

If Gibbs hasn't seen the light by now, it's time for him to go. I hope he's seen it. If he has, we'll have a shot at the playoffs.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

And how often have you seen a team like the 2000 Ravens win it all as opposed to teams like The New England Patriots, The Dallas Cowboys of the 90's, The 49ers and Redskins of the 80's? I don't want to have a fluke campionship team in Washington, I want to have a consistent winner.

Yeah, but I think the point to be made is that the league has changed. It was once a rushing league, and now it's a passing league. I too want a consistent contender. What do the teams you mentioned have in common? HOF quarterbacks.

Personally, I have never been impressed by the Patriots rushing offense. They've had good games here and there, but I think their strength -- this year, and others -- has been their passing attack. Excellent QBs can't be stopped consistently. I don't think that will ever change in the NFL.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Crazyhorse1

I agree going to an all passing game is nuts. We ought to run the ball every four or five plays just to keep our opponents honest. Our running game should consist of surprise stuff with Portis, Betts, and Sellers and scrambles by Campbell.

Also, ARE should pass more often. The guy is seriously good as a passer.

It's going to be years and a few rule changes before a team manages to go anywhere without being able to put up 30 or so points a game.

So be it.

ARE is looking pretty good when we decide to take passing seriously, Cooley is one of the best, and if Moss is back we have a fine group of WR's and a good backup, plus adequate to excellent receivers coming out of the backfield. We also have better pass blocking than run blocking.

If Gibbs hasn't seen the light by now, it's time for him to go. I hope he's seen it. If he has, we'll have a shot at the playoffs.

Brunell better watch his back.

[offiss]

The name of the game is ball control, it doesn't matter how you do it, so long as you do it, and it results in points. To try and force the issue is just plain stupid, if you can't run then don't continue to bang your head against a wall, throwing will eventually open up that running game if you are effective, 2nd and 2 will allow for a lot of running plays they then don't have to be for a lot of yards to move the chains. Our problem has been we for the most part can't get 1 to 2 yards when teams are waiting for it. IMO Gibbs is way behind in developing Campbell, he should be much further ahead at this stage of his career. The big question is after the past 2 weeks of letting Campbell open up will Gibbs revert back when he feels the pressure, or will he continue to attack in the air which should allow Campbell to learn at a much faster pace? I beleive he has to allow Campbell to attack down field with reckless abandon, he really needs those type of in game repetitions to really get his timing down, and understanding of what, and how defenses are scheming, you just can't simulate game speed and conditions in practice.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Ok, forward into the future. Let's look at the lions offense, Awesome WR's, pretty good RB's, OL, etc. and a "genius" OC (Martz) that you would probably like as the next coach (NOT!!!) All they do is pass the ball even though they have a pretty good offense. What happened to them against a tough D? If you don't balance your game you become predictable and if you go against a half decent DC, they will shut you down.

Here is the problem with Det. John Kitna.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

The name of the game is ball control, it doesn't matter how you do it, so long as you do it, and it results in points. To try and force the issue is just plain stupid, if you can't run then don't continue to bang your head against a wall, throwing will eventually open up that running game if you are effective, 2nd and 2 will allow for a lot of running plays they then don't have to be for a lot of yards to move the chains. Our problem has been we for the most part can't get 1 to 2 yards when teams are waiting for it. IMO Gibbs is way behind in developing Campbell, he should be much further ahead at this stage of his career. The big question is after the past 2 weeks of letting Campbell open up will Gibbs revert back when he feels the pressure, or will he continue to attack in the air which should allow Campbell to learn at a much faster pace? I beleive he has to allow Campbell to attack down field with reckless abandon, he really needs those type of in game repetitions to really get his timing down, and understanding of what, and how defenses are scheming, you just can't simulate game speed and conditions in practice.

JC is in his first full season starting and is looking pretty good, how much further along do you want him to be??

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by offiss

The name of the game is ball control, it doesn't matter how you do it, so long as you do it, and it results in points. To try and force the issue is just plain stupid, if you can't run then don't continue to bang your head against a wall, throwing will eventually open up that running game if you are effective, 2nd and 2 will allow for a lot of running plays they then don't have to be for a lot of yards to move the chains. Our problem has been we for the most part can't get 1 to 2 yards when teams are waiting for it. IMO Gibbs is way behind in developing Campbell, he should be much further ahead at this stage of his career. The big question is after the past 2 weeks of letting Campbell open up will Gibbs revert back when he feels the pressure, or will he continue to attack in the air which should allow Campbell to learn at a much faster pace? I beleive he has to allow Campbell to attack down field with reckless abandon, he really needs those type of in game repetitions to really get his timing down, and understanding of what, and how defenses are scheming, you just can't simulate game speed and conditions in practice.

How do you figure Gibbs is "way behind" in developing Campbell? If Campbell is behind, then where does that leave guys like Alex Smith, Eli Manning, and oh yeah, Vince Young?

[2BIG2BSKINNY]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

It's a passing league now. The rules beg you to pass it. All of the real good teams pass it to score. We need to adopt to this mindset. Sanders understands this, Gibbs and Bugel do not.

you have your pulse on what's going on...now whether our philosophy and Gibbs will allow that to happen. Pound people when you get the chance but we need to still pass and not 2-5 yard dunk passes all the time.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

Yeah, but I think the point to be made is that the league has changed. It was once a rushing league, and now it's a passing league. I too want a consistent contender. What do the teams you mentioned have in common? HOF quarterbacks.

Personally, I have never been impressed by the Patriots rushing offense. They've had good games here and there, but I think their strength -- this year, and others -- has been their passing attack. Excellent QBs can't be stopped consistently. I don't think that will ever change in the NFL.

Well true, they all had HOF QBs, but the point is, they also had HOF or HOF worthy running backs too. Well, the jury is still out on the Patriot's but for the rest of the teams mentioned, there were guys like E. Smith, Roger Craig, John Riggins, Earnest Byner, etc... The pass first philosophy has always been in the league along with the run first philosophy. I believe it really comes down to what your team can do best. However, regardless, (and some of what Offiss said was true,) you still have to control the ball on offense. So, that means a combination of short and intermediate passes, and a strong running game. If a team is stronger with the running game, you go with that, if they're a stronger passing team, you go with that. But regardless, you have to control the ball and the clock. It keeps your defense well rested and strong, and it tears down your opponent's defense.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by offiss

The name of the game is ball control, it doesn't matter how you do it, so long as you do it, and it results in points. To try and force the issue is just plain stupid, if you can't run then don't continue to bang your head against a wall, throwing will eventually open up that running game if you are effective, 2nd and 2 will allow for a lot of running plays they then don't have to be for a lot of yards to move the chains. Our problem has been we for the most part can't get 1 to 2 yards when teams are waiting for it. IMO Gibbs is way behind in developing Campbell, he should be much further ahead at this stage of his career. The big question is after the past 2 weeks of letting Campbell open up will Gibbs revert back when he feels the pressure, or will he continue to attack in the air which should allow Campbell to learn at a much faster pace? I beleive he has to allow Campbell to attack down field with reckless abandon, he really needs those type of in game repetitions to really get his timing down, and understanding of what, and how defenses are scheming, you just can't simulate game speed and conditions in practice.

I'm not really sure how you can say Gibbs is way behind in developing Campbell. There really isn't any evidence of this. In regards to letting Campbell continue to attack or "reverting back when he feels pressure", I believe we will game plan according to what strengths and weaknesses our opponent's defense has. We will attack when we need to and grind it out when the defense is tired.

[SFREDSKIN]

Do you all remember the"run and shoot offense"? It sure got far didn't it? Maybe in college (University of Hawaii) but not in the pro's.

[Campbell17]

I dont want us to become much more of a passing team than a running team, remember our 2 high quality backs? However, I would like us to pass more, and keep it more 50/50 in our play calling.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

JC is in his first full season starting and is looking pretty good, how much further along do you want him to be??

A few guys have touched on this so I hope I answer all your doubts.

Campbell is in his third year, the experience he's getting now should have started his first, even though he was allowed to start last season as well as the first half of this season Gibbs has held back the offense, we saw the same offense, and the same calls as we saw with Brunell, very conservative.

Only now that we are coming out and throwing and when I say throwing I mean down field not the usual 2 yard out pattern that Gibbs has been calling for the previous 3 seasons, are we able to start to see what Campbell is capable of, I think he was ready from the very start of this season to open up the passing game, I beleive we had 8 games of wasted time an experience for Campbell at the least. Take a look at the development of Cutler who is a year behind Campbell, as for Alex Smith? The guy looked very good last season when Norv was calling the plays, I wouldn't judge him under Nolan, I think we all are very aware of what kind of coach Nolan really is. I am not saying Campbell isn't on his way, all though I am very concerned by some of his decision making, in particular the INT late in the game when he could have probably ran it in for a TD, IMO there is no excuse for that, That play was all instinct, and he failed, will he make the right decision next time? I hope so! You have to do to learn and only in the last 2 games have we seen the offense start to open up, I would like to buy into the theory that Campbell wasnt ready but I haven't seen anything different since Gibbs arrived, I think from listening to a lot of the interviews of the players Moss, and Campbell in particular you hear a lot of comments like we can only do as much as the coaches allow us to do, is a subtle message to Gibbs that he is holding them back.

[chrisl13]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Over the past two weeks, we've all seen Jason Campbell get more comfortable running the offense and particularly take to the no-huddle offense. I've noticed two things happening in the process.

1. The offense seems to be much more in synch and in rythm. Campbell also seems to be on top of his reads more and hitting the open receiver. Also, we know one of Campbell's strong suits is his poise. This hurried fashion seems to suit his demeanor quite well.

2. I've also noticed the defense seems to be more on their heels in response to this style of play by the Skins. We're less predicatable and they can't situational substitute. It looks like we're even throwing more on first and second downs.

What I'm getting at is, and maybe this just me, should we become more pass oriented going forward. Not suggesting we abandon the run or not give Clinton his opportunities, but I think we may have tapped into something over the past two weeks; we can actually move the ball without eating up a lot of the clock, which in turn helps us manage the clock more effectively.

Should Gibbs/Saunders flip the script some and become a pass first offense? Is smash mouth football overrated and just something we're "trying too hard" to hang our hat on?

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting we become Air Coryell and let Jason air it out 50 or even 40 times a game. But if this team is going to compete for the rest of the season and put up points, for that matter, the template from yesterday's game may be what the doctor ordered for the personnel we curently have.

Not with a $50 million running back we shouldnt become a passing team

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I think you will start to see us really opening things up now. Gibbs has to look around the league and see what the real good teams are doing. He's stubborn as hell but I don't think he is stupid. We have got to start scoring more points. The goal can't be 21 or 24 points. He has to have the mindset to score 30 or more every week. And you don't do that in today's NFL playing smashmouth. I'm sorry but that stuff is out like bucket seats, or the mullet haircut.

I still like bucket seats, but never the Mullet. So why don't we compromise. I do not care how we do it; run or pass, return punts or kickoffs, scoop and score or pick 6. Hell, they could just kick 10 field goals a game for all I care. The goal is to put more points on the scoreboard than your opponent. I agree we need 30+ points a game. Just put the damn points up already.