For the Zorn / Campbell Excuse makers...

[djnemo65]

The author of this thread needs to take an introductory course in logic and/or statistics, because his argument makes no sense. If all four teams were playing the same schedule with identical supporting staffs it would be a valid argument. They aren't, so it's not.

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

The author of this thread needs to take an introductory course in logic and/or statistics, because his argument makes no sense. If all four teams were playing the same schedule with identical supporting staffs it would be a valid argument. They aren't, so it's not.

The attacks are really getting old...

1) Supporting staffs?? We returned more staff from last year than the Dolphins/Falcons (not sure on Ravens, but i'd say there too)

... the WHOLE POINT of the argument revolves around the specific area of those team's HC/OC portion of their staff being a much more productive, successful, talented group than ours...

2)Schedule? Like I said... we are 2-2 versus teams with a combined 5-47-1 record versus the rest of the league... hello?? don't talk about strength of schedule...

if comparing one NFL coaching staff to another NFL coaching staff isn't logically or statistically prudent enough for you, maybe you should take an introductory course on the word logic..

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

The attacks are really getting old...

1) Supporting staffs?? We returned more staff from last year than the Dolphins/Falcons (not sure on Ravens, but i'd say there too)

... the WHOLE POINT of the argument revolves around the specific area of those team's HC/OC portion of their staff being a much more productive, successful, talented group than ours...

2)Schedule? Like I said... we are 2-2 versus teams with a combined 5-47-1 record versus the rest of the league... hello?? don't talk about strength of schedule...

if comparing one NFL coaching staff to another NFL coaching staff isn't logically or statistically prudent enough for you, maybe you should take an introductory course on the word logic..

If one wishes to criticize the Redskins, there exists ample material with which to do that. Many posters on this site have produced effective and often devastating analyses attacking both the coaching staff and the players. Very edifying, love reading it. However, comparing the Skins to the Dolphins, or Falcons, or 85 Bears, or 96 Chicago Bulls, or whatever is completely arbitrary and irrelevant. That’s not the standard by which we judge them. Now, it's one thing to produce smart analysis drawing parallels between coaching staffs with similar traits and circumstances. This type of soft-analysis is what good sportswriters and good posters do. It is another to point at a different team with a new coach and QB and say, see, their success mathematically, incontrovertibly proves the Redskins suck. One is interesting, the other is ass stoopid.

I wouldn't have so big a problem with your thread if you weren't imbuing it with the language of statistics, something you clearly don't understand.

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

If one wishes to criticize the Redskins, there exists ample material with which to do that. Many posters on this site have produced effective and often devastating analyses attacking both the coaching staff and the players. Very edifying, love reading it. However, comparing the Skins to the Dolphins, or Falcons, or 85 Bears, or 96 Chicago Bulls, or whatever is completely arbitrary and irrelevant. That’s not the standard by which we judge them. Now, it's one thing to produce smart analysis drawing parallels between coaching staffs with similar traits and circumstances. This type of soft-analysis is what good sportswriters and good posters do. It is another to point at a different team with a new coach and QB and say, see, their success mathematically, incontrovertibly proves the Redskins suck. One is interesting, the other is ass stoopid.

I wouldn't have so big a problem with your thread if you weren't imbuing it with the language of statistics, something you clearly don't understand.

"the language of statistics" you are mentioning would be...? Points scored and points allowed??? Record versus the worst teams in football (a combined 5-47-1 aginst the rest of the league)??

231 points scored for one team compared to 336, 325, 283 for the other three... help me with understanding these tough statistics...which is better??

oh yeah, that's right... points don't matter when comparing one team to another.. right?


And who said anything about the '85 Bears??? Are you seriously criticizing my post when you take a little bit of information and stretch it as far as you possibly can with words just to try and support some really idiotic analysis? Like I need your approval for anything??

I am comparing 4 teams with new Head Coaches who have had to install new offenses with 4 "new" (to the system) QB's ... using the only stat that REALLY matters... POINTS! ... yeah, apples to grapes....

let's just agree to disagree because I can't read anymore mid-numbingly ignorant people who only want to criticize other people when make absolutely no common sense themselves...

if you disagree that JC and JZ should be to blame for our season, fine, just say so... but to attack me personally with no reasonable logic....

[30gut]

Look you makes some good points, but how can you assign all the blame to JC who has improved and a first year/last minute HC that didn't even have the time/chance to bring in his own staff except for an OC that doesn't even know the WCO and an assistant from St.Olaf?


The offensive line doesn't deserve any blame?
Offensive line coaching?

Receivers not getting open? Dropping passes? Not making big plays?
WR coaching?

The main thing that bothers me about your post is that you gloss over the 2 most important factors in the Ravens and Falcons offensive success. The
offensive coordinator/offensive line coach.

Can Zorn get some credit for taking a team, that everyone wrote off at the start of the season, to 6-2 now 7-7 when people picked them to go 4-11?

Can Zorn get some credit for putting out an creative offense during the 6-2 run?

Can Zorn get some credit for holding it all together while serving as HC/OC/QB coach?

[itvnetop]

I think SS made a good point regarding our impatience vs. reality. Skins' fans refuse to go through a "rebuilding" phase that includes major overhauls of staff, player and philosophical overhauls that lead to consecutive top-10 draft seasons. I don't call the last decade or so of bad-mediocre seasons "rebuilding", as so much as we were restocking... some of those seasons just had records similar to inexperienced teams.

We blame Snyder when he meddles, when he pulls the trigger too fast, when he makes big splashes. We blame the team when they don't make changes. We blame the rookies when they're not performing at Pro-Bowl levels their first year. Maybe Snyder is just a reflection of us. If any of us were in his position, the fanbase would still be looking for blood. Maybe we're the problem?

[skinsqc]

We are never going anywhere with jason cambell as our qb.This team was struggling to score points last year and was heading for a 6 and 10 season.Lucky for them jc got hurt and all are offensive problems followed him to the bench.Cannot read defenses does not make quick enough decisions.play colt or hell even give the man that carried us to the playoffs last year a chance.

[redskinsfan1974]

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ALL THE HATE FOR JIM ZORN AND JASON CAMPBELL I MEAN COMPARING REDSKINS TO THE Ravens THE RAVENS DEFENSE HAS SCORED 6 TIMES. THEY HAVE ONLY BEATEN 3 TEAMS WITH WINNING RECORDS. THEN YOU GOT THE Atlanta Falcons WITH 4 PLAYERS HAVING A BREAKTHROUGH YEAR: Roddy White,Michael Turner,Matt Ryan,John Abraham OKAY NEXT Miami Dolphins THEY HAVE Bill Parcells WE HAVE VINNY ENOUGH SAID THEY ALSO HAVE ONLY BEATEN TWO TEAMS WITH A WINNING RECORD. ALL OF THOSE TEAMS HAVE DEFENSE THAT HAVE SCORED A TD AND THE REDSKINS HAVE 0. THEN, TRYING TO COMPARE JASON CAMPELL TO Aaron Rogers, Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler IS CRAZY. WHAT DID WE EXPECT FROM A ROOKIE HC WITH NO PLAY CALLING EXPERIENCE? AS FOR JASON CAMPBELL I THINK HE'S HAVING A DECENT YEAR. SOMETIMES HE MAY HOLD ONTO THE BALL TOO LONG, ALSO HIS WR HAS DROPPED SOME BALLS, TOO. ALSO, ONE LAST THING... THEY STATED THAT OUR DEFENSE IS BETTER THAN THE Falcons & Dolphins . THE FALCONS DEFENSIVE STATS ARE: 28 SACKS 10 INT 7 FFUM 2 DEFTD THE DOLPHINS DEFENSIVE STATS ARE: 37 SACKS 12INT 13 FFUM 1 DEFTD THE REDSKINS DEFENSIVE STATS ARE: 21 SACKS 12 INT 6 FFUM 0 DEFTD. WITH THAT SAID, FOOTBALL IS A TEAM SPORT. IT'S JUST NOT ONE PLAYER OR HC. I THINK THEY NEED TO KEEP ZORN AND CAMPBELL. WITH THE RIGHT OFF-SEASON MOVES, WE WILL BE IN THE HUNT NEXT YEAR.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by redskinsfan1974

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ALL THE HATE FOR JIM ZORN AND JASON CAMPBELL I MEAN COMPARING REDSKINS TO THE Ravens THE RAVENS DEFENSIVE HAS SCORE 6 TIMES THEY HAVE ONLY BEATEN 3 TEAMS WITH WINNING RECORD THEN YOU GOT THE Atlanta Falcons WHO 4 PLAYERS HAVING BREAKOUT YEAR Roddy White,Michael Turner,Matt Ryan,John Abraham OKAY NEXT Miami Dolphins THEY GOT Bill Parcells WE GOT VINNY ENOUGH SAID THEY ALSO HAVE ONLY BEATEN TWO TEAMS WITH A WINNING RECORD ALL OF THOSE TEAMS HAVE DEFENSIVE SCORE TD BUT THE REDSKINS AND THEN TRYING TO COMPARE JASON CAMPELL TO Aaron Rogers, Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler IS CRAZY WHAT DID WE EXPECT FROM A ROOKIE HC WITH NO PLAY CALLING EXPERIENCE AS FOR JASON CAMPBELL I THINK HE HAVING DECENT YEAR SOMETIME HE MAY HOLDING ONTO THE BALL TOO LONG HIS WR HAVE DROP SOME BALL TOO ALSO ONE LAST THING THEY STATED THAT ARE DEFENSIVE IS BETTER THAN THE Falcons & Dolphins . THE FALCONS DEFENSIVE STAT ARE 28 SACKS 10 INT 7 FFUM 2 DEFTD THE DOLPHINS DEFENSIVE STAT ARE 37 SACKS 12INT 13 FFUM 1 DEFTD THE REDSKINS DEFENSIVE STAT ARE 21 SACKS 12 INT 6 FFUM 0 DEFTD WITH THAT SAID FOOTBALL IS TEAM SPORT ITS JUST NOT ONE PLAYER OR HC I THINK THEY NEED KEEP ZORN AND CAMPBELL WITH THE RIGHT OFF SEASON MOVE WE WILL BE HUNT NEXT YEAR

Good points, but hard to read with the all caps

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by redskinsfan1974

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND ALL THE HATE FOR JIM ZORN AND JASON CAMPBELL I MEAN COMPARING REDSKINS TO THE Ravens THE RAVENS DEFENSE HAS SCORED 6 TIMES. THEY HAVE ONLY BEATEN 3 TEAMS WITH WINNING RECORDS. THEN YOU GOT THE Atlanta Falcons WITH 4 PLAYERS HAVING A BREAKTHROUGH YEAR: Roddy White,Michael Turner,Matt Ryan,John Abraham OKAY NEXT Miami Dolphins THEY HAVE Bill Parcells WE HAVE VINNY ENOUGH SAID THEY ALSO HAVE ONLY BEATEN TWO TEAMS WITH A WINNING RECORD. ALL OF THOSE TEAMS HAVE DEFENSE THAT HAVE SCORED A TD AND THE REDSKINS HAVE 0. THEN, TRYING TO COMPARE JASON CAMPELL TO Aaron Rogers, Matt Cassel, Jay Cutler IS CRAZY. WHAT DID WE EXPECT FROM A ROOKIE HC WITH NO PLAY CALLING EXPERIENCE? AS FOR JASON CAMPBELL I THINK HE'S HAVING A DECENT YEAR. SOMETIMES HE MAY HOLD ONTO THE BALL TOO LONG, ALSO HIS WR HAS DROPPED SOME BALLS, TOO. ALSO, ONE LAST THING... THEY STATED THAT OUR DEFENSE IS BETTER THAN THE Falcons & Dolphins . THE FALCONS DEFENSIVE STATS ARE: 28 SACKS 10 INT 7 FFUM 2 DEFTD THE DOLPHINS DEFENSIVE STATS ARE: 37 SACKS 12INT 13 FFUM 1 DEFTD THE REDSKINS DEFENSIVE STATS ARE: 21 SACKS 12 INT 6 FFUM 0 DEFTD. WITH THAT SAID, FOOTBALL IS A TEAM SPORT. IT'S JUST NOT ONE PLAYER OR HC. I THINK THEY NEED TO KEEP ZORN AND CAMPBELL. WITH THE RIGHT OFF-SEASON MOVES, WE WILL BE IN THE HUNT NEXT YEAR.

OK, so just because the Falcons have scored 2 TDs on defense and Dolphins have scored 1, are you trying to say that are far better than our D?? We have forced more turnovers than Atlanta and have the same INTs as Miami... and again.. we only allow 19.0 points per game which is the only defensive stat that matters! (ATL - 20.1, MIA - 19.2)... I'll grant you that Baltimore's D is better, but they have scored over 100 points more than us on offense!

As far as 4 Falcons having "breakthrough years" ...
1st - Ryan is a ROOKIE QB, does he qualify for a "breakthrough year"?
... and 2nd -You are kind of making my point... I mean why do you think they are having "breakthrough years"? The offense that was just installed this season and the rookie QB directing it?

Also, people mentioning schedules or who people have played, etc remember that we are 2-2 vs teams which are 5-47-1 vs everyone else...

well, I guess I agree with you about Cerrato, but you could blame him for everyone and erverything...
but again, I am saying that THIS SEASON falls on Zorn mostly and Campbell a little...

I am not saying get rid of them... I was just pointing out that I our pass offense is what has kept us from making a real run this season... and that I am not sold on either of them blowing people away in this department next year... I hope I'm wrong there, but...