The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SkinsFanSince91

The only position that bench doesnt mean squat at is Punter, Kicker, and QB.

But even as a QB, bench press tells them how strong one can stand in the pocket and not get draged down by tacklers like Drew Bledsoe, Brad Johnson, etc..

Brady Quinn did 24 reps last year

So do you need to be a strong bench press guy to play RB and safety? Cause Sean Taylor (RIP) never ever lifted weights. He prefered to do more cardio and endurance training. Yet he had no problem getting guys on the ground. Portis isn't a big weight room guy either. I saw Portis one time down at the Georgetown Waterfront a few years ago. He doesn't have a big upper body. I bet he can't lift 225 10 times. But he was wearing shorts and he had some serious tree trunk thighs. I couldn't believe how big his legs were. So to me, when it comes to being a good football player, bench pressing is just waaaaay over rated.

Also, standing strong in the pocket has more to do with your legs and balance, rather than upper body strength.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Not to sound like an expert but I lift 6 days a week, I'm 6'2 and weigh 235lbs. I train every body part twice a week and I did play football. I've built my chest up by rarely bench pressing. I prefer dumbell presses, dumbell fly's, dips, incline pushups and hammer strength machines. I never ever bench press because it's too hard on my delts and you get a better stretch in your chest using dumbells. If you saw me on the street you'd think I could bench 225 25 times but I can probably only do it 7-9 times. Just cause I can't bench a ton does that make me have a weak upper body. Why don't these guys test for squats? Lower body strength is more important for football than upperbody. To me the combine is just a waste of time.

I'm no expert either and I've been out of lifting for a while. But I was a regular in the gym and played/coached competitively after high school too. I'm not arguing that bench is the sole indicator of upper body strength. But it gives you a general idea compared to other prospects. I agree with you, they should definitely test squats at the combine. I totally disagree though about the combine being a waste of time, the teams are trying to get a total picture of each prospect and the combine is critical to get a physical baseline.

I guess I should clarify my point on Monk, I'm not just discounting him because of his poor bench. But he isn't tremendously fast, and was widely regarded as a lower level pick even before the combine. He didn't WOW anyone in college or he would be more highly rated.

I was arguing with jsarno about our needs and I just don't see this guy as filling a need when we have two other young big WRs with NFL experience that may develop. And we really need some young depth at other more critical positions so I can't see using a pick on him. If we can bring him in as a FA, fine take a look at him, just don't spend a pick on him.

[DGreene28]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

So do you need to be a strong bench press guy to play RB and safety? Cause Sean Taylor (RIP) never ever lifted weights. He prefered to do more cardio and endurance training. Yet he had no problem getting guys on the ground. Portis isn't a big weight room guy either. I saw Portis one time down at the Georgetown Waterfront a few years ago. He doesn't have a big upper body. I bet he can't lift 225 10 times. But he was wearing shorts and he had some serious tree trunk thighs. I couldn't believe how big his legs were. So to me, when it comes to being a good football player, bench pressing is just waaaaay over rated.

Also, standing strong in the pocket has more to do with your legs and balance, rather than upper body strength.

Good point Sean Tayor, (RIP) lifted 225 11 times at the Miami pro day and he was the best ever... Compared to the safeties at the combine this year he would be near the bottom. I think the combine has it's posities and negatives. Teams get more out to the meet and greet part of it then anything else. With all the running players do at the combine they'll never do squats

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by DGreene28

Good point Sean Tayor, (RIP) lifted 225 11 times at the Miami pro day and he was the best ever... Compared to the safeties at the combine this year he would be near the bottom. I think the combine has it's posities and negatives. Teams get more out to the meet and greet part of it then anything else. With all the running players do at the combine they'll never do squats

EXCELLENT point, and no one questioned his toughness. He was one of the hardest hitting safties I have ever seen.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by jsarno

EXCELLENT point, and no one questioned his toughness. He was one of the hardest hitting safties I have ever seen.

Not tryin to make this a Taylor thread, but this description of Sean was written by one of the editors of Pro Football Weekly a few weeks before the '04 draft. I'll miss this dude:

PFW associate editor Ken Bikoff
Miami (Fla.) S Sean Taylor
Guys like Eli Manning and Larry Fitzgerald may get all the attention in the days leading up to the draft, but it is Taylor who really created the buzz at the Combine and will become the newest superstar in the NFL. Taylor’s buzz was different from the kind of murmur that accompanied RB Maurice Clarett. The talk about Taylor was about just how relentless he is. His own teammates at Miami said they had to be sure where he was on the field at all times just so they wouldn’t get run over, and Taylor was already being compared to Ronnie Lott by some experts. That’s about the highest praise a safety can get coming out of college, and Taylor’s mix of intensity and speed will make him the next great safety in the NFL.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

So do you need to be a strong bench press guy to play RB and safety? Cause Sean Taylor (RIP) never ever lifted weights. He prefered to do more cardio and endurance training. Yet he had no problem getting guys on the ground. Portis isn't a big weight room guy either. I saw Portis one time down at the Georgetown Waterfront a few years ago. He doesn't have a big upper body. I bet he can't lift 225 10 times. But he was wearing shorts and he had some serious tree trunk thighs. I couldn't believe how big his legs were. So to me, when it comes to being a good football player, bench pressing is just waaaaay over rated.

Also, standing strong in the pocket has more to do with your legs and balance, rather than upper body strength.

LT is kind of like that. Diesel strong legs but not a particularly impressive upper body.

[30gut]

Slingin Sammy 33 Said:

Let's discuss, the stats are all this regular season. First, 6' 1" is not small. Not a "Big receiver" but not small and both Houz & Johnson are threats on a fade, which give them the option to run the slant more effectively (reinforcing my point).

Houz - 12 Total TDs. 2 - Between 10-20, 6 - Inside 10. Of the 6 inside the 10, 4 were inside routes.
Johnson - 8 Total TDs. 1 between 10-20, 4 - Inside 10. 2 were inside routes.
Wayne - 10 Total TDs. 0 - Between 10-20, 4 Inside 10. 2 were inside routes.
Gonzalez only scored 3 TDs all year, none in the Red Zone.
Harrison - obviously injured, but his numbers are normally similar to Wayne's.
Welker - Didn't he have Randy Moss on the outside to open things up inside?
Hines Ward - Too lazy to check.

My point is that the smaller receivers aren't usually beating the D on outside routes especially in the Red Zone. And especially in the case of Welker, look what a big receiver that can run a fade does to help the smaller, quicker guys. Steve Smith begged for Keyshawn in Carolina and Key wasn't out-running anyone at that point in his career. Again to my point....Balance.
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Okay your new point:

My point is that the smaller receivers aren't usually beating the D on outside routes especially in the Red Zone.


:confused:That's why we should get Monk (great name) a 'Big' receiver. Despite his lack of speed, and injuries, and limited production (possibly due to the run first nature of the school)

Maybe its b/c fade patterns are cooler than slants patterns, Or maybe its the lasting image of Burress's fade pattern in the superbowl. I don't know. But last time i checked a touchdown via fade isn't any better than a touchdown from a slant.

If there are more good receivers under 6'1 then over 6'1 how can a 'big' receiver be a necessity?


You said:
First, 6' 1" is not small. Not a "Big receiver" but not small and both Houz & Johnson are threats on a fade, which give them the option to run the slant more effectively (reinforcing my point).


So here are some receivers regardless of size that i think would be decent draft picks:
(Maybe we should start a thread about the 'Big' receiver vs Regular receiver concept)

Andre Caldwell, Florida
Height: 6-0. Weight: 204.
Projected 40 Time: 4.36.
Combine 40 Time: 4.37.
Vertical: . Broad .
Projected Round: 2-3.

William Franklin, Missouri
Height: 6-0. Weight: 214.
Projected 40 Time: 4.40.
Combine 40 Time: 4.37.
Vertical: 34.5. Broad .
Projected Round: 3-4.

Jerome Simpson, Coastal Carolina
Height: 6-1. Weight: 190.
Projected 40 Time: 4.46.
Combine 40 Time: 4.37.
Vertical: 37.5. Broad 11-4.
Projected Round: 4.

Dexter Jackson, Appalachian State (Smaller receiver but fast as hell)
YouTube - #2 WR Dexter Jackson Catches
Height: 5-9. Weight: 185. Projected 40 Time: 4.33.
Combine 40 Time: 4.37.
Vertical: . Broad .
Projected Round: 4-5.

*A Local kid*
Arman Shields, Richmond
Height: 6-0. Weight: 194.
Projected 40 Time: 4.44.
Combine 40 Time: 4.44.
Vertical: 37.5. Broad 10.8.
Projected Round: 7.

[That Guy]

dexter jackson is probably the best value WR/KR in the draft. i'd definitely be up on him in the 5th, but he might go at the end of the 3rd... maybe our comp pick...