To Read Option, or Not

[CrustyRedskin]

Originally Posted by Evilgrin

Twitter sources are reporting that Shanahan will run Rg3 12 times up the gut per game this year. It worked so well, and he didn't tear his achilles fully until the last game. They want to see how long it will take to tear with more runs.

:confused:Achilles?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Evilgrin

Twitter sources are reporting that Shanahan will run Rg3 12 times up the gut per game this year. It worked so well, and he didn't tear his achilles fully until the last game. They want to see how long it will take to tear with more runs.

That's a long way for a bad joke that fell flat.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Maybe it's semantics to some, but until a team running the read-option wins the SB it's a gimmick to me. And I don't think it's an accident we don't see the very best teams who have very mobile QBs running it i.e. Aaron Rogers has fantastic mobility and shows it plenty to scramble/extend plays, but you don't see Mike McCarthy sending Rogers up the gut with the pigskin. It's retarded to use your franchise QB as a running back, period. Another enchilada to use a guy like Kaepernick or Wilson who cost you very little.

I think that the 49ers and Seahawks would argue that their qbs are franchise qbs. And I don't like sticking up for another team, but the 49ers proved that they were one of the best teams in the nfl.

And I don't want to start arguing about the details of the read option and the misconception of using the qb as a running back.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Check the stats and tape again. Aaron Rodgers has averaged 4 rushes per game over the last three years. Some of these are scrambles but some are designed runs in which Rodgers runs "up the gut with the pigskin." If you watch the tape, you'll see that some of these designed runs are based on zone read concepts.

Aaron Rodgers | Green Bay Packers | NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Wrong example to make your point.

I can't tell if your serious or not, but I'll play along for a minute. Every QB in the history of the game runs a sneak, typically at the goal line or on very short yardage. Beyond that, I've never seen Rogers keep the ball on say, 2nd and 8, for the sake of keeping the ball. If you've seen it, please post it. What we do see is Rogers scramble out of a collapsed pocket, and picking up so good yardage there. Though I'll say he's extremely careful to avoid hits i.e. sliding long before there could be contact or heading out of bounds. Hopefully this is what Shanahan ultimately envisions for RG.

Again, the notion of making your designated franchise QB a RB at the pro level is way outside the norm. Vick is really the only other example, and he held up far better than RG as a comparison i.e. Vick didn't sustain repeated major injuries as a rookie. The bottom line is it hasn't worked for any team in terms of long-term success, and won't work unless the league somehow makes hits to the QB off-limits in all circumstances.

Arguing otherwise is just absurd. It's not supported by the evidence or common sense.

[The Goat]

There's no way to tell what the Niners and/or Seahawks would do in our situation i.e. using a 2nd overall pick they mortgaged the future of the franchise to get as a RB. Whether Wilson/Kaepernick are considered franchise QBs is debatable, but it's irrelevant to the discussion because those situations are nothing like ours.

I guess you can believe the hype about the read-option, but it was run very well by San Fran and was basically shut down by the first great/disciplined defense they faced in the playoffs. And that was on minimal game tape and review. Every defensive coordinator/unit in the league has time to review it now. Betting on the read-option is a long-shot at this point, unless you've predetermined you cannot compete with a traditional offensive system ala the Ravens, Pats, Broncos, Giants, Saints and Packers.

The weight of evidence here isn't even close at this point.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I can't tell if your serious or not, but I'll play along for a minute. Every QB in the history of the game runs a sneak, typically at the goal line or on very short yardage. Beyond that, I've never seen Rogers keep the ball on say, 2nd and 8, for the sake of keeping the ball. If you've seen it, please post it. What we do see is Rogers scramble out of a collapsed pocket, and picking up so good yardage there. Though I'll say he's extremely careful to avoid hits i.e. sliding long before there could be contact or heading out of bounds. Hopefully this is what Shanahan ultimately envisions for RG.

Again, the notion of making your designated franchise QB a RB at the pro level is way outside the norm. Vick is really the only other example, and he held up far better than RG as a comparison i.e. Vick didn't sustain repeated major injuries as a rookie. The bottom line is it hasn't worked for any team in terms of long-term success, and won't work unless the league somehow makes hits to the QB off-limits in all circumstances.

Arguing otherwise is just absurd. It's not supported by the evidence or common sense.

Of course I am serious. And you are mistaken.

I do not have time to splice film together demonstrating that the Packers do in fact send Aaron Rodgers "up the gut" on intentional runs. However, in the brief time that I have had to look, I still found this film of an intentional QB draw:

Aaron Rodgers Touchdown Run vs Tennessee Titans -...

Fact is, the Packers and Aaron Rodgers have had long-term success with the franchise QB running the ball intentionally. Aaron Rodgers engages in intentional runs frequently. Please adjust your argument to reflect reality.

[The Goat]

^^^ LOL to the above. I just said every team/QB in football runs a sneak (or draw, which is just the delayed version) near the goal line or in short yardage, and that's exactly what you found.

From the stats page you linked, Rogers hasn't run anywhere near as many yards as RG or Vick for that matter. And again, apart from the goal line and short yardage I've never seen him, or any other franchise QB since Vick, tucking the ball as the primary running option the way RG does.

You just don't see it, and for good reason.

[The Goat]

I do think there's an argument for it though with a guy like Kaepernick in San Fran. As a franchise, you didn't sacrifice much for him in the first place, and he's a bigger dude than RG.

Apples and oranges comparing those two guys for a whole bevy of reasons.

I don't know what to think of Wilson, except that from what little I watched of him he's already very good and avoiding contact.

[SmootSmack]

What the hell is your stupid point? That teams shouldn't utilize their players' full talents? That offensive concepts shouldn't evolve?

[Lotus]

Last year Kyle fielded an offense unlike any that has ever been seen before in the NFL. Certainly concepts were borrowed: read option, West Coast schemes, etc. But the way he put those pieces together was new. We frequently ran formations which had never before been seen on an NFL field. The result: near the top of the league in both rushing and passing.

What Kyle did was creatively and effectively innovate. He showed that he can successfully implement original offensive concepts.

If people don't see this, and call what we did a "gimmick" instead, they are not appreciating the game of football. Or Kyle for that matter. What a shame.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What the hell is your stupid point? That teams shouldn't utilize their players' full talents? That offensive concepts shouldn't evolve?

That is what I got from it. My mom always told me when we go to the zoo that I shouldn't feed the bears. She never said what to do with the goats. I may need to call her later tonight.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I do think there's an argument for it though with a guy like Kaepernick in San Fran. As a franchise, you didn't sacrifice much for him in the first place, and he's a bigger dude than RG.

Apples and oranges comparing those two guys for a whole bevy of reasons.

I don't know what to think of Wilson, except that from what little I watched of him he's already very good and avoiding contact.

You know you changed your argument. You were arguing it was a gimmick offense because it wasn't run by the best teams. Now you're saying you can run it, but not with RGIII. Is it a gimmick or not?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

That is what I got from it. My mom always told me when we go to the zoo that I shouldn't feed the bears. She never said what to do with the goats. I may need to call her later tonight.

The student has surpassed the teacher. Wise words my friend. Wise words

[MTK]

Don't get sucked into the vortex.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Last year Kyle fielded an offense unlike any that has ever been seen before in the NFL. Certainly concepts were borrowed: read option, West Coast schemes, etc. But the way he put those pieces together was new. We frequently ran formations which had never before been seen on an NFL field. The result: near the top of the league in both rushing and passing.

What Kyle did was creatively and effectively innovate. He showed that he can successfully implement original offensive concepts.

If people don't see this, and call what we did a "gimmick" instead, they are not appreciating the game of football. Or Kyle for that matter. What a shame.

Boom roasted