John Glenn quote (warning, some content may incite anger)

[jsarno]

This is an e-mail sent to me by my buddy that is a staunch republican. I am unsure of it's authenticity, but I thought it was a very good read. I am sure there are plenty here that will not find it a good read. Hopefully open minds with prevail.

John Glenn said...
This should make you think a little:

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq in January. In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war-torn country of Iraq.

When some claim that President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following:

a. FDR led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us ; Japan did.
>From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

c. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea. North Korea never attacked us.
>From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost , an average of 18,334 per year.

d. John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

e. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
>From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

f. Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent. Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing.
Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya , Iran , and, North Korea
without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking.

But Wait

It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound.
That was a 51-day operation..

We've been looking for evidence for chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard, than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!

Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is high!

The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.

But wait!
There's more!


JOHN GLENN (on the Senate floor - January 26, 2004)

Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed
services do what they do for a living.

This IS a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served think of the military.

Senator Metzenbaum (speaking to Senator Glenn):
'How can you run for Senate when you've never held a real job?'

Senator Glenn (D-Ohio):
'I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps.
I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions.
My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program. It wasn't my
checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the
daily cash receipts to the bank.'

'I ask you to go with me, as I went the other day to a veteran's hospital and look those men,
with their mangled bodies, in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job!

You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and Orphans
of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee...

and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their DADS didn't hold a job.

You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends
buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags.

You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job?

What about you?'
For those who don't remember
During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney representing t he Communist Party in the USA .


Now he's a Senator!

[Riggo44]

I love John Glenn a true American hero that knows how to put things in the proper perspective.
Nice post Jsanro.

For any of the young folks on this board that haven’t seen the story of John Glen and the Mercury astronauts in (The Right Stuff). Do yourself a favor and check out one of the best movies in the past 30yr’s.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Riggo44

I love John Glenn a true American hero that knows how to put things in the proper perspective.
Nice post Jsanro.

For any of the young folks on this board that haven’t seen the story of John Glen and the Mercury astronauts in (The Right Stuff). Do yourself a favor and check out one of the best movies in the past 30yr’s.

John Glenn's a badass. I got nervous the first time I rode The Incredible Hulk rollercoaster at Universal Orlando. This dude went to space! Freakin' modern day Magellan. John McCain before there was John McCain.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

John Glenn's a badass. I got nervous the first time I rode The Incredible Hulk rollercoaster at Universal Orlando. This dude went to space! Freakin' modern day Magellan. John McCain before there was John McCain.

I am a roller coaster enthusiast. I liked the Hulk, but the designers seemed too eager to put as many twists and turns as possible in it. I actually enjoyed the dualing dragons more.
I have been dying to go to cedar point in Ohio, but I have no one to go with. My wife has a fear of roller coasters, and I don't want by myself...that's no fun. Anywho...

John Glenn is a great model for anyone in this country or out.

[Riggo44]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

John Glenn's a badass. I got nervous the first time I rode The Incredible Hulk rollercoaster at Universal Orlando. This dude went to space! Freakin' modern day Magellan. John McCain before there was John McCain.

lol, I know what you mean I got nervous the first time I rode X last summer at Six Flagg’s and I love rollercoaster’s.

I'm not really sure how I would react if someone was counting down to lift off and I was sitting on top of the biggest stick of dynamite in the world.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Riggo44

I love John Glenn a true American hero that knows how to put things in the proper perspective.
Nice post Jsarno.

For any of the young folks on this board that haven’t seen the story of John Glen and the Mercury astronauts in (The Right Stuff). Do yourself a favor and check out one of the best movies in the past 30yr’s.

Thank you sir.

[SmootSmack]

Urban Legends Reference Pages: John Glenn 'I Have Held a Job!' Quote

Be sure to scroll down to the "Update"

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Urban Legends Reference Pages: John Glenn 'I Have Held a Job!' Quote

Be sure to scroll down to the "Update"

Looks like part of it was tacked on.
So Glenn likely did not say that part, but it wasn't refuted on that site which still makes it pretty relevant and none the less interesting.

[JWsleep]

I like John Glenn as well: an American hero.

As for the content of what he (or whomever) said, I think it misses the point. The problem is how badly the Bush team have conducted the war and how badly bungled the pre-war intelligence was, even if you don't accept that it was deliberately fabricated or anything.

We went to Iraq on bad intelligence without an effective plan for the post-invasion situation. Anyone who mentioned this at the time were smashed down by the Cheney-Rumsfeld contingent in the White House. Even if the war was started for acceptable reasons (I was behind it) and even if you think the military is doing it's job well (at the level of junior officer and enlisted men, I think we've been great. Patreus may be good at the general level. Franks' attack plan worked well. But Snachez and Casey were disasters, only there becuase they would follow Rumsfeld's orders), there's still the issue of bad planning, bad decision making, and bad strategy by the Bush team.

I am a fully committed backer of our troops. I just think they've been let down by a bunch of naive, pig-headed politicians who refused to accept anything but their own view. It's "taking a long time" in Iraq becuase we didn't have a plan for post-war Iraq beyond passing the country of to our hand-picked guy Chalabi. When that failed, we were stuck. Disbanding the military and de-bathifying the government didn't help matters. And Abu Graib was a serious mistake that's hurt us in lots of other areas.

If we had good people at the top with a good plan, we wouldn't be in this mess. The troops ARE doing their job, above and beyond often, even with the pathetic lack of armor and so forth at the initial stages of the insurgency.

Rumsfeld and Cheney were cowboys who thought they knew better than everyone else how this would go. They NEVER got along with the military. Rumsfeld wanted to cut the pentagon and make a new sort of Army. Etc, etc. They've done a great disservice to our military, in my opinion, and they've only given aid and comfort to those who think we should never use force at all.

(For more on this, see "Bush's War," a 2 part series on PBS's Frontline. I'd love to find out that the show was inaccurate, but given the range of folks they talk to, I doubt it. It was among the most depressing things I've seen in a while.)

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

(For more on this, see "Bush's War," a 2 part series on PBS's Frontline. I'd love to find out that the show was inaccurate, but given the range of folks they talk to, I doubt it. It was among the most depressing things I've seen in a while.)

I have watched this and can't get over how badly Donald Rumsfeld screwed this country over. It was on Bush's watch and it ultimately lays with him but Rumsfeld was the architect of this disaster.

[JWsleep]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I have watched this and can't get over how badly Donald Rumsfeld screwed this country over. It was on Bush's watch and it ultimately lays with him but Rumsfeld was the architect of this disaster.

Agreed, though I think Cheney was always there to back up Rummy in crucial debates and disagreements. As for Bush, my impression is that he just didn't have the force of will to disagree with these guys and his desire for strong action (not always, or even often) a bad thing, meant that he was most receptive to their views, especially in contrast with Powell's "you break it you buy it coalition approach).

But Rummy screwed up, no doubt. It's amazing how time and time again he's behind the missteps.

I;m told by my buddy at the NY Times that Rummy is one of the most charming and interesting (and funny) guys you can meet. Doesn't make you a good defense secretary, unfortunately.

[BleedBurgundy]

i really appreciate this kind of post. I think it says alot about the people that have actually accomplished something in this country vs those who sit back and criticize every move that is made...

there is no 'effective post invasion' plan. Look back throughout history and show me one "invader" that was welcomed with open arms. Each invader thought/felt like they were in the right, either by divine inspiration or simple evolution. Like it or not we are outsiders occupying another country. It's an ugly situation. right or wrong is completely dependent upon perspective. To discredit the progress that has been made in that country without considering the status of basic human rights in that same territory 4 or 5 years ago is naive beyond description. yeah, we all want to sound intelligent. yeah, we all have an opinion. yeah, we all truly have never been in any situation that requires real life world changing decision making so we have no real clue what goes into the progress, despite what we read on the interweb. Everyone's a critic. No one is part of a solution. More hot air is all there is. What a sad state of affairs.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

i really appreciate this kind of post. I think it says alot about the people that have actually accomplished something in this country vs those who sit back and criticize every move that is made...

there is no 'effective post invasion' plan. Look back throughout history and show me one "invader" that was welcomed with open arms. Each invader thought/felt like they were in the right, either by divine inspiration or simple evolution. Like it or not we are outsiders occupying another country. It's an ugly situation. right or wrong is completely dependent upon perspective. To discredit the progress that has been made in that country without considering the status of basic human rights in that same territory 4 or 5 years ago is naive beyond description. yeah, we all want to sound intelligent. yeah, we all have an opinion. yeah, we all truly have never been in any situation that requires real life world changing decision making so we have no real clue what goes into the progress, despite what we read on the interweb. Everyone's a critic. No one is part of a solution. More hot air is all there is. What a sad state of affairs.

Here's the deal though. We didn't just not have a good plan....we had NO PLAN. Rumsfeld was more worried about consolidating his power, screwing the CIA, and affecting regime change as a means to complete cultural change. What he and his fellow neocons forgot was that winning the war was easy it was getting their idea of flourishing democracy to take hold in the peace that was hard and they had no idea wahat the hell to do to do it.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Here's the deal though. We didn't just not have a good plan....we had NO PLAN. Rumsfeld was more worried about consolidating his power, screwing the CIA, and affecting regime change as a means to complete cultural change. What he and his fellow neocons forgot was that winning the war was easy it was getting their idea of flourishing democracy to take hold in the peace that was hard and they had no idea wahat the hell to do to do it.

First of all, I was in the military during the time and onboard a US Navy Sub in the Red Sea as we shot off part of the salvo that was known as "Shock and Awe" so I'm not "talking out of my ass" on this one. We DID have a plan. Saying otherwise is hyperbole generated by those who are diametrically opposed to everything that this administration has done. I'm not saying it was necessarily a good or particularly effective plan, but there was a plan. We did not go to war at the cost of at least 4,000 american lives for the sake of Rumsfeld consolidating power.

My point is that if anyone, ANYONE, expects an occupying force (that's what we are, no reason to sugar coat it) to be welcomed in with open arms, they are delusional. What I think is very convenient is that before the war was begun, public opinion was in favor of action in Iraq. Then, later, when there were no WMD found, everyone acts like you can go back in time and change everything. We are there, regardless of why, how or when we got there, we are. SO that is the current situation. All of this constant bitching about the past is completely inconsequential.

Was the public misled? Definitely. Do they have a right to be pissed off? Yes. Does that have ANYTHING to do with the current situation? Not at all.

I'm not going to write too much more because this is fast approaching incoherent territory but... For better or for worse, we are there. The only plausible course of action is to finish what we came to do. Doing otherwise will send a very harmful signal to the enemy that if they plant enough IED's and blow up enough marketplaces, the US will not have the stomach to endure a drawn out conflict. It will invite more and more of this type of tactic being utilized anywhere we are in that region. It's human nature, find a weakness and exploit it.

People spend a hell of a lot time complaining and examining when what we as a country and unified government need to do is use all necessary force to finish this war in Iraq. AFTER that is accomplished, then we can investigate and make changes in policy so that we don't find ourselves in future situations like this one. But this nationwide backseat driving is completely counter-productive.

Anyone that presumes to know the innerworkings of the cabinet that decided action on this war either is delusional, believes everything they see on CNN and read in the NY Times or both.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

We DID have a plan. Saying otherwise is hyperbole generated by those who are diametrically opposed to everything that this administration has done.

Well evidence shows we didn't have much of a plan whether you think we did or not. We had no inkling of what it would take to manage the peace and WE KNOW THAT NOW since we have the benefit of history as proof. If you want to quibble about semantics and the meaning or "we didn't have aplan" then go for it. What I meant and I think any reasonable person knows this is that whatever our plan was it was poorly constructed and appears to have been nothing but an afterthought. All in all it appears our "plan" wasn't much of a plan at all more than a vague naive notion of cheering crowds happy to see us liberate them. And as other s can atest to I am anything but "diametrically" opposed to this administration. I call it being honest and not being idealogical or partisan.

We did not go to war at the cost of at least 4,000 american lives for the sake of Rumsfeld consolidating power.

Think what you want but Rumsfeld's drive for power WAS a big motivating factor behind the entire Iraq theatre.

Anyone that presumes to know the innerworkings of the cabinet that decided action on this war either is delusional, believes everything they see on CNN and read in the NY Times or both.

Or maybe someone who doesn't has their head in the sand.