Wilbon's article

Bergman14 · 11-29-2004, 09:58 AM

everyone should read wilbons article today, but here is an excerpt for all of you that STILL continue to support Dan Snyder:
"It's possible to learn about the Redskins by looking at the Steelers, who are sort of the anti-Redskins model of how to build and sustain a team. Every offseason, the Redskins scrap the latest plan and start another. The Pittsburgh franchise is the epitome of stability, from Bill Cowher's 13-year run as coach to Bettis's nine years of service. The Steelers and Bettis, rather than divorce one another, remarried in the offseason. And when starter Duce Staley suffered an injury several weeks ago, Cowher called on the Bus to resume his old role. All Bettis has done since then is rush for 100 yards or more four times in four games, and carry at least 29 times in each game. All the Bus has done is take the pressure off rookie quarterback sensation Ben Roethlisberger, control the clock, keep the Steelers' defense rested and demonstrate to everybody in Pittsburgh's locker room the value of professionalism and team-first thinking."

this team is the joke of the nfl, and Mark Brunell could end up being the worst FA signing in the history of sport, let alone the nfl.

sportscurmudgeon · 11-29-2004, 10:06 AM

Bergman14:

Brunell's signing was not a move of genius to be sure.

However, the worst free agent signing in sports trophy has probably been retired by the NY Mets when they signed Mo Vaughn for a guaranteed contract of about $80M...

Redskins_P · 11-29-2004, 10:57 AM

Why does Dan Snyder get all the blame when we're losing? Why can't the players be held accountable for once?

I think Snyder overpaid most of these guys, and there not living up to it. Its sad, but true.

Gmanc711 · 11-29-2004, 11:15 AM

Seriously, common now. Outside of the Brunell singing, what would you have wanted him to do differently this past offseason? Its not his fault Spurrier just left, and we were forced to start a new plan. I'm not a huge fan of Synder by any means, but why do we blame him? Its not his fault.

skin4Life28 · 11-29-2004, 11:18 AM

Because Snyder wants to win now and lose later. Of course, since we are losing now and will lose later, Snyder is going to break up the team one way or another. Jerry Jones of the Boys, reduced his role with Parcells and they won. Now, you see them losing and he is stirring up the pot again in Dallas. I do fault a lot of blame on Snyder for not having any patience. I do believe that Marty ball could have worked here, but was fired like many of our other coaches. Sure Snyder has not really been in the picture much this year, but his pressence will be felt one way or another. It is the same old story every year. We will bring in some used NFC East trash and try to recycle them to work like every other NFC East team.

Bergman14 · 11-29-2004, 11:47 AM

As Wilbon hinted at, its the tone of the organization set at the top, with Dan Snyder. As long as things continue going the way they are, I can see us ever being a championship caliber team. This is football, there is a salary cap, this is the one sport where spending money does not lead to success, you need to have a solid organization with STABILITY, not to mention a GM. Im just afraid with all the great young talent we have had over the last few years we are really missing out on an opportunity

SmootSmack · 11-29-2004, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bergman14

you need to have a solid organization with STABILITY, not to mention a GM. Im just afraid with all the great young talent we have had over the last few years we are really missing out on an opportunity

So we have great young talent yet we need a GM?

Paintrain · 11-29-2004, 12:05 PM

I don't think Snyder will do anything drastic this offseason. He respects Gibbs too much to strip him of any power and trusts him to right the ship as well as to win eventually. I can see them maybe cutting Samuels and/or Brunell but there's not a lot of shopping to be done on the free agent market. The only splashy thing I can see them doing is if Pennington somehow isn't signed by the end of the season and/or isn't franchised for some reason Snyder and Gibbs going after him and trading Ramsey for a pick. Other than that, personnel wise, I don't know of anything needing an overhaul. We need a new center and some depth along the defensive line but other than that I can't see where they will greatly improve by getting new players.

MTK · 11-29-2004, 12:12 PM

The 2nd Gibbs era isn't even in it's 2nd offseason yet, let's give it some time to see how things go before we string Snyder up from the rafters.

I think Snyder will do exactly what he said he would do, let Gibbs run the show and stay in the background.

sportscurmudgeon · 11-29-2004, 12:13 PM

smootsmack:

You hit that one on the head. The asumption here always is that the Redskins are brimming over with talent and that it is the stupid coaches and/or the corrupt referees that are preventing the team from winning.

People say we have a WR corps that is in the top three of the league.

Portis was supposed to be the best RB in the NFC according to posters here.

Cooley was going to be a beast and make everyone forget about Jeremy Shockey in the NFC East. (Note: most everyone outside NY has already forgotten about Shockey because he is the single most overhyuped and over-rated player in the league at the moment.)

Patrick Ramsey's stats in his first umpteen starts show that he is better at this point than Brett Favre and Peyton Manning were so obviously he'll be at least their equal.

And so on and so on...

The sorry fact is that there is no team here. There are a bunch of "name recognition players" who continue to play for their own "names" and "stats" but with not nearly enough role players to do all the other things that have to be done to win football games. THE TALENT ISN'T SUFFICIENT because the team has been built on a faulty model.

And who is responsible for the model? Danny Boy or Vinnie Boombatz? You make the call...

JWsleep · 11-29-2004, 02:40 PM

Gibbs hasn't been back a year yet. Please give him time to build the stability that makes for a good team. And, by the way, doesn't the defense HAVE that team look right now? Or are they exempt from the anti-Danny rant? Stability means people have been together for a decent amount of TIME. Gibbs has been here for about 10 months. Next year, and the year after that will begin to tell if the skins will be a good team again. They lost some close ones early when the schdule was weaker, and now they are losing (relatively) close games to 2 of the best teams in the NFL. And y'all want to burn it down again. Man. Bill Cowher has been at Pittsburgh 13 years. During Andy Reid's tenure, the skins have had something like 4 head coaches and 5 D coordinators. Now GIbbs and co is back (and Gibbs, I take it, IS the GM), and it will take time for the course to change. But from what I've seen so far this year, I'm encouraged. They are in every game until late. THey never quit battling. And they are getting better, especially now that Ramsey is in there. The worm will turn!

Rant over.

MTK · 11-29-2004, 02:48 PM

I wouldn't say the Skins have had an overflow of talent over the past few years, but they've had more talent than their records indicate.

The one constant in the equation has been the constant turnover both in the coaching staff and in the personnel, but both tend to go hand in hand.

I agree with JW, let's give Gibbs and co. some time to make this work.

That Guy · 11-29-2004, 03:08 PM

i just wish he didn't go out and get brunell... back in gibbs first era, that would have been a huge waste of money, but now its a huge waste of money that could have been better used to get/pay other players...

bedlamVR · 11-29-2004, 04:06 PM

The Skins had a plan it was Spurrier the hero world conquering collage coach who well just up and quit on us. Before that Marty who lost the locker room, went out of his way to upset Snyder and would have turned the Skins into a Marty team like the chargers... great you say? They win a lot of games but like the Chiefs before them lack the spirit to lift them in the playoffs and feature a bunch of players auditioning for other teams next year. Marty is one of the most sucessful regular season coaches and one of the least sucessful post season coaches. Before that we had Norv and Robskie who were one in the same since as much of a stand up guy and Robskie was, all he was was nothing more than a warm body to fill the gap left when, Snyder got fed up with Norv who was well on his way to flittering away another stong redskin start to miss the playoffs yet again like he had done countless times in the previous X number of years.

It was during the following season it might interest those always calling for a GM that Snyder admitted he may have fired the wrong guy between Norv and Charley Casserly but since the two couldn't work together at all and the NFL dragged the sale of the Skins out all the way May 26th 1999, past the draft, past free agency and just over three months to the begining of the '99 season. Snyder neaded a HC more than a GM. CC set us up with two of the best drafts in 1999 and 2000 and gave us the leader in Brad Johnston to take us to the playoffs but also because of the uncertianty re: the ownership we lost one of what could have been one of the cornerstones of the franchise in Trent Green. It is imposible to say where we could have been had the sale gone through quicker had CC stayed here but one thing is for sure Dan had a hand in where we are now but no way is he responsible for everything that has happened.

One thing Dan Snyder has done consistantly year after year though is everything he could do to make the team better you want to support and anti Dan team try the 49ers $50 mil pay roll this year and probably the same next year and the next becasue thier owner puts his pocket book before the team, same with Bidwell and and Cards.... Just a thought.

bedlamVR · 11-29-2004, 04:23 PM

When people say we over pay for players what do they meen? Do they meen players are not playing well? Outside Barlow and Brunell who isn't playing well and okay Brunell was a HUGE waste of money. Spings? Griffin? Washington? Tupa? who? Thing is you pay the going rate you pay less and you end up with a wallet load of cash and not the player you wanted. You gamble whenever you draft or try and build through FA this year DESPITE the record we are hitting more than missing. And remember this is year one, we will have to address aspects of our cap this year but we are looking good for the future and rember those teams that were built overnight fall overnight too .

11-29-2004, 09:58 AM	#1
Bergman14 Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Winston-Salem Age: 42 Posts: 138	Wilbon's article everyone should read wilbons article today, but here is an excerpt for all of you that STILL continue to support Dan Snyder: "It's possible to learn about the Redskins by looking at the Steelers, who are sort of the anti-Redskins model of how to build and sustain a team. Every offseason, the Redskins scrap the latest plan and start another. The Pittsburgh franchise is the epitome of stability, from Bill Cowher's 13-year run as coach to Bettis's nine years of service. The Steelers and Bettis, rather than divorce one another, remarried in the offseason. And when starter Duce Staley suffered an injury several weeks ago, Cowher called on the Bus to resume his old role. All Bettis has done since then is rush for 100 yards or more four times in four games, and carry at least 29 times in each game. All the Bus has done is take the pressure off rookie quarterback sensation Ben Roethlisberger, control the clock, keep the Steelers' defense rested and demonstrate to everybody in Pittsburgh's locker room the value of professionalism and team-first thinking." this team is the joke of the nfl, and Mark Brunell could end up being the worst FA signing in the history of sport, let alone the nfl.

11-29-2004, 10:06 AM	#2
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Bergman14: Brunell's signing was not a move of genius to be sure. However, the worst free agent signing in sports trophy has probably been retired by the NY Mets when they signed Mo Vaughn for a guaranteed contract of about $80M... __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

11-29-2004, 11:15 AM	#4
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	Seriously, common now. Outside of the Brunell singing, what would you have wanted him to do differently this past offseason? Its not his fault Spurrier just left, and we were forced to start a new plan. I'm not a huge fan of Synder by any means, but why do we blame him? Its not his fault. __________________ #21

11-29-2004, 12:13 PM	#10
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	smootsmack: You hit that one on the head. The asumption here always is that the Redskins are brimming over with talent and that it is the stupid coaches and/or the corrupt referees that are preventing the team from winning. People say we have a WR corps that is in the top three of the league. Portis was supposed to be the best RB in the NFC according to posters here. Cooley was going to be a beast and make everyone forget about Jeremy Shockey in the NFC East. (Note: most everyone outside NY has already forgotten about Shockey because he is the single most overhyuped and over-rated player in the league at the moment.) Patrick Ramsey's stats in his first umpteen starts show that he is better at this point than Brett Favre and Peyton Manning were so obviously he'll be at least their equal. And so on and so on... The sorry fact is that there is no team here. There are a bunch of "name recognition players" who continue to play for their own "names" and "stats" but with not nearly enough role players to do all the other things that have to be done to win football games. THE TALENT ISN'T SUFFICIENT because the team has been built on a faulty model. And who is responsible for the model? Danny Boy or Vinnie Boombatz? You make the call... __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

11-29-2004, 02:40 PM	#11
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 56 Posts: 4,719	Gibbs hasn't been back a year yet. Please give him time to build the stability that makes for a good team. And, by the way, doesn't the defense HAVE that team look right now? Or are they exempt from the anti-Danny rant? Stability means people have been together for a decent amount of TIME. Gibbs has been here for about 10 months. Next year, and the year after that will begin to tell if the skins will be a good team again. They lost some close ones early when the schdule was weaker, and now they are losing (relatively) close games to 2 of the best teams in the NFL. And y'all want to burn it down again. Man. Bill Cowher has been at Pittsburgh 13 years. During Andy Reid's tenure, the skins have had something like 4 head coaches and 5 D coordinators. Now GIbbs and co is back (and Gibbs, I take it, IS the GM), and it will take time for the course to change. But from what I've seen so far this year, I'm encouraged. They are in every game until late. THey never quit battling. And they are getting better, especially now that Ramsey is in there. The worm will turn! Rant over. __________________ Hail from Houston!

11-29-2004, 10:57 AM	#3
Redskins_P Fight for old DC! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Aldie, VA Age: 47 Posts: 4,101	Why does Dan Snyder get all the blame when we're losing? Why can't the players be held accountable for once? I think Snyder overpaid most of these guys, and there not living up to it. Its sad, but true.

11-29-2004, 11:18 AM	#5
skin4Life28 Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 38 Posts: 447	Because Snyder wants to win now and lose later. Of course, since we are losing now and will lose later, Snyder is going to break up the team one way or another. Jerry Jones of the Boys, reduced his role with Parcells and they won. Now, you see them losing and he is stirring up the pot again in Dallas. I do fault a lot of blame on Snyder for not having any patience. I do believe that Marty ball could have worked here, but was fired like many of our other coaches. Sure Snyder has not really been in the picture much this year, but his pressence will be felt one way or another. It is the same old story every year. We will bring in some used NFC East trash and try to recycle them to work like every other NFC East team.

11-29-2004, 11:47 AM	#6
Bergman14 Special Teams Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Winston-Salem Age: 42 Posts: 138	As Wilbon hinted at, its the tone of the organization set at the top, with Dan Snyder. As long as things continue going the way they are, I can see us ever being a championship caliber team. This is football, there is a salary cap, this is the one sport where spending money does not lead to success, you need to have a solid organization with STABILITY, not to mention a GM. Im just afraid with all the great young talent we have had over the last few years we are really missing out on an opportunity

11-29-2004, 12:05 PM	#8
Paintrain Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Age: 54 Posts: 5,006	I don't think Snyder will do anything drastic this offseason. He respects Gibbs too much to strip him of any power and trusts him to right the ship as well as to win eventually. I can see them maybe cutting Samuels and/or Brunell but there's not a lot of shopping to be done on the free agent market. The only splashy thing I can see them doing is if Pennington somehow isn't signed by the end of the season and/or isn't franchised for some reason Snyder and Gibbs going after him and trading Ramsey for a pick. Other than that, personnel wise, I don't know of anything needing an overhaul. We need a new center and some depth along the defensive line but other than that I can't see where they will greatly improve by getting new players.

11-29-2004, 12:12 PM	#9
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,766	The 2nd Gibbs era isn't even in it's 2nd offseason yet, let's give it some time to see how things go before we string Snyder up from the rafters. I think Snyder will do exactly what he said he would do, let Gibbs run the show and stay in the background.

11-29-2004, 02:48 PM	#12
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,766	I wouldn't say the Skins have had an overflow of talent over the past few years, but they've had more talent than their records indicate. The one constant in the equation has been the constant turnover both in the coaching staff and in the personnel, but both tend to go hand in hand. I agree with JW, let's give Gibbs and co. some time to make this work.

11-29-2004, 03:08 PM	#13
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 42 Posts: 17,587	i just wish he didn't go out and get brunell... back in gibbs first era, that would have been a huge waste of money, but now its a huge waste of money that could have been better used to get/pay other players...

11-29-2004, 04:06 PM	#14
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	The Skins had a plan it was Spurrier the hero world conquering collage coach who well just up and quit on us. Before that Marty who lost the locker room, went out of his way to upset Snyder and would have turned the Skins into a Marty team like the chargers... great you say? They win a lot of games but like the Chiefs before them lack the spirit to lift them in the playoffs and feature a bunch of players auditioning for other teams next year. Marty is one of the most sucessful regular season coaches and one of the least sucessful post season coaches. Before that we had Norv and Robskie who were one in the same since as much of a stand up guy and Robskie was, all he was was nothing more than a warm body to fill the gap left when, Snyder got fed up with Norv who was well on his way to flittering away another stong redskin start to miss the playoffs yet again like he had done countless times in the previous X number of years. It was during the following season it might interest those always calling for a GM that Snyder admitted he may have fired the wrong guy between Norv and Charley Casserly but since the two couldn't work together at all and the NFL dragged the sale of the Skins out all the way May 26th 1999, past the draft, past free agency and just over three months to the begining of the '99 season. Snyder neaded a HC more than a GM. CC set us up with two of the best drafts in 1999 and 2000 and gave us the leader in Brad Johnston to take us to the playoffs but also because of the uncertianty re: the ownership we lost one of what could have been one of the cornerstones of the franchise in Trent Green. It is imposible to say where we could have been had the sale gone through quicker had CC stayed here but one thing is for sure Dan had a hand in where we are now but no way is he responsible for everything that has happened. One thing Dan Snyder has done consistantly year after year though is everything he could do to make the team better you want to support and anti Dan team try the 49ers $50 mil pay roll this year and probably the same next year and the next becasue thier owner puts his pocket book before the team, same with Bidwell and and Cards.... Just a thought.

11-29-2004, 04:23 PM	#15
bedlamVR Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 389	When people say we over pay for players what do they meen? Do they meen players are not playing well? Outside Barlow and Brunell who isn't playing well and okay Brunell was a HUGE waste of money. Spings? Griffin? Washington? Tupa? who? Thing is you pay the going rate you pay less and you end up with a wallet load of cash and not the player you wanted. You gamble whenever you draft or try and build through FA this year DESPITE the record we are hitting more than missing. And remember this is year one, we will have to address aspects of our cap this year but we are looking good for the future and rember those teams that were built overnight fall overnight too .

Wilbon's article

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