what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?

formerskinzfan · 04-23-2005, 08:37 PM

let me begin by saying that until today I was a lifelong resdkins fan. After Gibbs left the first time, I moved from my hometown of washington d.c. and moved to CA to attend college. While here, I stood by my team and suffered in silence through the norv turner(good luck with him Oakland b/c that dog doesn't hunt!) and terry robiskie (who?!) era. I even stood behind them as the "ballcoach" and Dan Snyder made every boneheaded, kid at a candystore, ruin our salary cap situation, signing that they possibly could. (you remember when Dan Wilkinson, Dana Stubblefield, Deion Sanders, Jeff George and any other under-achieving, over-rated, past his prime bum that came along were all hailed as the signings that would lead us back to the promised land). Well in a way, they did lead us back to the promised land; first round draft picks and our old master Joe Gibbs back as head coach. I had really hoped this would be the start of a second golden era for my beloved skins. I couldn't have been more wrong. In consecutive years, my hopes have been dashed by a drafting pattern that only makes sense if we're a soccer team that hopes to force a 0-0 tie every week and have the game come down to penalty kicks. Last year, we miss out (err...ignore) on the single best tight end to come out of college since Kieth Jackson to take an alcoholic malcontent safety who apparently wants a new deal already (although I'm not sure if he's holding out on the District Attorney or Joe Gibbs, who must have been drunk himself when he passed up on Winslow) in spite of the fact that he's only had one decent season in this league. Hey Taylor, the only safety worth holding out is a young Ronnie Lott. When you win three superbowls like him, you can hold out but until then, bring your drunk, crying, holding out butt to practice and shut the hell up and play. As if that indignity wasn't enough, I had to stare at my computer today and see us pass on the best wide receiver in the draft so that we could take another cover corner. Gee, I seem to remember us having the best cover corner in the league....Oh that's right, we traded him (because we didn't want to give him what we will end up paying for the unproven Rogers) so that we could get an overpriced and over paid speed back in Clinton Portis and make him the feature back in Gibbs' signature power running game. Does the term square peg in a round hole ring a bell? Then we give up draft picks and major money for Laverneus Coles, who was less efective last year (in spite of his blazing speed) than a condom with a perforated tip. In spite of that, and Arrington's injury, we still had the best defense in the league last year but one of the worst offenses. So it stands to reason that this year we would use the great luxury of two first round picks on skill players to compliment our "quarterback of the future" P-Ram right? Wrong. We allowed Fred Smoot to walk w/no compensation and instead decide to "strengthen" our secondary with another unproven rookie (who by the way will demand as much if not more money than smoot or bailey in two years, if he does prove to be as effective as either of them, which is highly unlikely) instead of helping our anemic and emaciated offense with a franchise caliber wide out like Mike Williams! And I don't give a damn about his 40 time. The 40 time is one of the most over-rated stats in the world. Joey Galloway and Terry Glenn both ran impressive 40's and where are they now? By the way, does anyone remember Michael Irvin's time in the 40 yard dash? I don't. But I do remember him jumping over Darrell Green and killing us on comeback and deep post routes during the last cowboy golden era. What about Chris Carter, Jerry Rice and Art Monk? Does anyone remember or care about what they ran in the 40 yard dash? And besides, I don't need to outrun you if I can impale you with a stiff arm and run you over. All of those guys are hall of fame wide outs who didn't posess anything close to the size, strength and good hands combination that Williams does. And when was the last time a "physical speed corner" like Carlos Rogers could cover any of them. Never. And remember,Darrell Green ran the fastest 100 yard dash time in the world the year he was drafted and he could never win the match up with super physical receivers like Irvin and Carter. And Joe Gibbs doesn't throw the ball deep that often anyway. I went to a lot of SC games and Mike Williams is the best red-zone, possession touchdown making receiver I have seen since Michael Irvin and he will be much better thant Irvin. Forget his speed. He's a football player. Almost every corner in the speedy PAC-10 ran a better 40 than Mike Williams and it didn't stop him from torching them for two touchdowns per week. No 175 lb corner or 200 lb safety in this league can stop Mike Williams going up for a ball over the middle or in the red zone. And no linbacker in this league has the feet and lateral quickness to cover him either. He's an unsolvable match up problem every week for the next 12 years and we missed out. If the NFL were as about speed as they say, we'd be recruiting wide outs from track teams and not footbal programs. The position is wide receiver. Not wide track star or wide 4x100 relay team runner. I know this. You all know this. The only people who dont' seem to know this are Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs. We could and should be going into this season with Kellen Winslow Jr. and Mike Williams on offense (and take pride in having the two biggest offensive match up problems in this league on the same side of the football) while Lavar Arrington and Champ Bailey or Fred Smoot anchors what is still one of the leagues best defenses. But instead, we are going to be the Miami Dolphins of the NFC East. A lack luster offensive club that in spite of its fast, physical defense, can still be beaten if you put up 13-15 points. And for the record, I don't give a rat's ass how good taylor and rogers turn out to be. If they aren't first ballot hall of famers considered among the best of all time at their positions, their careers will always pale in comparison to those of Willams and Winslow jr; especially if they spent 10 years together on the same team. And all of us redskin fans who wandered through the wilderness waiting for this chance will have to wonder what could have been. I never thought this day would come, when the team I was raised to love, the team that I saw in three super bowl parades would become like an ex girlfriend that I really loved before she broke my heart. I still care about her..but I will never trust her again and nor should I. That is why I am no longer a redskins fan. I will always care about them. But I will never love this team again.

BossHog · 04-23-2005, 08:51 PM

Good riddence, loser!

wolfeskins · 04-23-2005, 09:02 PM

if you let draft picks and free agents turn you from the skins then you were never really a TRUE fan to begin with. winslow jr. ?? you must be on crack.

skin4Life28 · 04-23-2005, 08:52 PM

Bye bye then. Mike Williams is good, but will be a tight end sooner than later. Wether this team loses every game or drafts some clown I haven't heard of. I will always bleed burgandy and gold.

Hijinx · 04-23-2005, 09:07 PM

As will I always be die hard skins. However, I do agree with a good deal of what you have to say. A few mistakes here and there are part of being a fan of any team in any sport, but the Skins FO have become a laughing stock in the NFL.
When a few days ago they made the trade for the 25th pick no one in the league, the press, or the fans could figure out what they were doing. And now that it is over I still can't figure out what they are doing. Even if you take for granted that we needed another QB and that Campbell is the:
1)QB of the future
2)best QB of the draft
3)the Messiah
How can you say we needed to give up a 1st, 3rd and 4th for him, when I think he would have been there in the 2nd round.

exit0 · 04-24-2005, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hijinx

When a few days ago they made the trade for the 25th pick no one in the league, the press, or the fans could figure out what they were doing. And now that it is over I still can't figure out what they are doing. Even if you take for granted that we needed another QB and that Campbell is the:
1)QB of the future
2)best QB of the draft
3)the Messiah
How can you say we needed to give up a 1st, 3rd and 4th for him, when I think he would have been there in the 2nd round.

Yeah... I agree. So, they used 3 draft picks to pick up a QB that easily would be no more than a second round draft pick?? Huh? Also, I have to laugh at Gibbs as he justified this pick as investment in the future... and said this was no reflection on Ramsey. Of course, it all depends on his progress and performance, but i thought RAMSEY was the future investment for QB position.

This has been the worst offseason that I can remember... Losing important players and using the high draft picks to just replace or just add players. I don't see where they improved at all... And now that they have no dominant WR to speak of, I can't see their passing game improving much from last year.

I usually look at the Skins optimiscally.... but after this offseason I'm pessimistic as hell for next season.

wolfeskins · 04-24-2005, 06:48 PM

EXIT0 your just used to all the high profile players that the skins have been getting since danny snyder took over. your used to the redskins winning the off season superbowl. finally things are getting back to normal in dc.
just relax and enjoy this ride as gibbs returns this organization into a winning one.

drew54 · 04-24-2005, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exit0

Yeah... I agree. So, they used 3 draft picks to pick up a QB that easily would be no more than a second round draft pick?? Huh? Also, I have to laugh at Gibbs as he justified this pick as investment in the future... and said this was no reflection on Ramsey. Of course, it all depends on his progress and performance, but i thought RAMSEY was the future investment for QB position.

This has been the worst offseason that I can remember... Losing important players and using the high draft picks to just replace or just add players. I don't see where they improved at all... And now that they have no dominant WR to speak of, I can't see their passing game improving much from last year.

I usually look at the Skins optimiscally.... but after this offseason I'm pessimistic as hell for next season.

What if god forbid something terrible happened to Ramsey next year. Then we would have been stuck with Brunell and forced to draft a quarterback out of need and probably tried to trade up and seriously overpaid to get someone.

This was an investment pick. It is an insurance pick. Gibbs likes this guy because he fits our system and will begin his career learning and develping slowly.

Granted we could have drafted Adrian McPhereson in a later round, but he doesn't have the cleanest track record and is definately and uncut diamond. But even the best jewlers can ruin a diamond.

exit0 · 04-25-2005, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew54

What if god forbid something terrible happened to Ramsey next year. Then we would have been stuck with Brunell and forced to draft a quarterback out of need and probably tried to trade up and seriously overpaid to get someone.

This was an investment pick. It is an insurance pick. Gibbs likes this guy because he fits our system and will begin his career learning and develping slowly.

Granted we could have drafted Adrian McPhereson in a later round, but he doesn't have the cleanest track record and is definately and uncut diamond. But even the best jewlers can ruin a diamond.

yeah... but still the fact is the Skins used 3 (repeat 3) draft picks for this guy. Why this team continues to vastly overpay for players is beyond me. Obviously Gibbs likes this guy... but he also loves Brunell who everybody, except for Gibbs apparently, knew was washed up. Of course, time will tell how this pick will pan out.

heybigstar · 04-23-2005, 08:57 PM

True that.. you never, know,

1) we could make a move tommorow
2) Rogers is a shutdown corner.
3) We make the playoffs next year>?

KLHJ2 · 04-23-2005, 09:19 PM

Let me start out by saying that I will always be a skins fan. I believe in Patrick Ramsey. I also trust coach Gibbs. Say what you want about Sean Taylor, but he is one hell of a player. Chris Cooley was a diamond in the rough.I like the fact that we picked up Carlos this year. I do not understand the drafting of a QB though, but I am confident that Gibbs and the front office know what they are doing.

Daseal · 04-23-2005, 09:20 PM

Exactly Hijinx - if this was actually our plan, why did we trade so fast instead of feeling the market out and trying to get the most value.

I'm certainly not "turning on the skins" but I think the fans have a very legitimate right to gripe and wonder after the way this offseason has been handled.

jamf · 04-23-2005, 09:31 PM

why is everyone in love with mike williams? if he is so good why did 2 WR's go before him?

In my opinion, mike williams is a keyshawn johnson clone. granted he will make alot of catches, but they wont be for more than 10 yards each.

now to the original post:
you would rather have winslow over taylor? are you kidding me?
jesus christ man, go watch some arena football.

DRIVER! run him over with the bandwagon!

glorydays · 04-23-2005, 09:48 PM

Bye Bye! You think that Winslow was a better "citizen" coming out of college than Taylor?? The "soldier" was the biggest punk in all of college sports. While, I can't defend the fact that this team traded a 1st, 3rd, and 4th round pick for the right to draft Jason whatshisname, I'm still a fan. You stick with your team through the thick and thin, even if the owner is an idiot, and his director of player personnel is a moron. Gibbs might not even be able to coach in today's NFL, but he most certainly deserves repect for what he's done for this franchise.

jdlea · 04-23-2005, 10:03 PM

Dan Snyder has successfully soured a lot of people on the Redskins. I can understand where he's coming from. I like how some of you attempted to call him a bandwagon fan when they haven't been good in about 15 years. I think if he were a bandwagon fan, he would have switched to the Cowboys. I get sick of all of this bandwagon and fair weather bs you guys try to throw out there. This "team" is being ruined by the organization. We're a lot like the 49ers in that respect.

04-23-2005, 08:37 PM	#1
formerskinzfan Camp Scrub Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 11	what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park? let me begin by saying that until today I was a lifelong resdkins fan. After Gibbs left the first time, I moved from my hometown of washington d.c. and moved to CA to attend college. While here, I stood by my team and suffered in silence through the norv turner(good luck with him Oakland b/c that dog doesn't hunt!) and terry robiskie (who?!) era. I even stood behind them as the "ballcoach" and Dan Snyder made every boneheaded, kid at a candystore, ruin our salary cap situation, signing that they possibly could. (you remember when Dan Wilkinson, Dana Stubblefield, Deion Sanders, Jeff George and any other under-achieving, over-rated, past his prime bum that came along were all hailed as the signings that would lead us back to the promised land). Well in a way, they did lead us back to the promised land; first round draft picks and our old master Joe Gibbs back as head coach. I had really hoped this would be the start of a second golden era for my beloved skins. I couldn't have been more wrong. In consecutive years, my hopes have been dashed by a drafting pattern that only makes sense if we're a soccer team that hopes to force a 0-0 tie every week and have the game come down to penalty kicks. Last year, we miss out (err...ignore) on *the single best tight end to come out of college since Kieth Jackson* to take an alcoholic malcontent safety who apparently wants a new deal already (although I'm not sure if he's holding out on the District Attorney or Joe Gibbs, who must have been drunk himself when he passed up on Winslow) in spite of the fact that he's only had one decent season in this league. Hey Taylor, the only safety worth holding out is a young Ronnie Lott. When you win three superbowls like him, you can hold out but until then, bring your drunk, crying, holding out butt to practice and shut the hell up and play. As if that indignity wasn't enough, I had to stare at my computer today and see us pass on the best wide receiver in the draft so that we could take another cover corner. Gee, I seem to remember us having the best cover corner in the league....Oh that's right, we traded him (because we didn't want to give him what we will end up paying for the unproven Rogers) so that we could get an overpriced and over paid speed back in Clinton Portis and make him the feature back in Gibbs' signature power running game. Does the term square peg in a round hole ring a bell? Then we give up draft picks and major money for Laverneus Coles, who was less efective last year (in spite of his blazing speed) than a condom with a perforated tip. In spite of that, and Arrington's injury, we still had the best defense in the league last year but one of the worst offenses. So it stands to reason that this year we would use the great luxury of two first round picks on skill players to compliment our "quarterback of the future" P-Ram right? Wrong. We allowed Fred Smoot to walk w/no compensation and instead decide to "strengthen" our secondary with another unproven rookie (who by the way will demand as much if not more money than smoot or bailey in two years, if he does prove to be as effective as either of them, which is *highly unlikely) instead of helping our anemic and emaciated offense with a franchise caliber wide out like Mike Williams!* And I don't give a damn about his 40 time. The 40 time is one of the most over-rated stats in the world. Joey Galloway and Terry Glenn both ran impressive 40's and where are they now? By the way, does anyone remember Michael Irvin's time in the 40 yard dash? I don't. But I do remember him jumping over Darrell Green and killing us on comeback and deep post routes during the last cowboy golden era. What about Chris Carter, Jerry Rice and Art Monk? Does anyone remember or care about what they ran in the 40 yard dash? And besides, I don't need to outrun you if I can impale you with a stiff arm and run you over. All of those guys are hall of fame wide outs who didn't posess anything close to the size, strength and good hands combination that Williams does. And when was the last time a "physical speed corner" like Carlos Rogers could cover any of them. Never. And remember,Darrell Green ran *the fastest 100 yard dash time in the world* the year he was drafted and he could never win the match up with super physical receivers like Irvin and Carter. And Joe Gibbs doesn't throw the ball deep that often anyway. I went to a lot of SC games and Mike Williams is the best red-zone, possession touchdown making receiver I have seen since Michael Irvin and he will be much better thant Irvin. Forget his speed. He's a football player. Almost every corner in the speedy PAC-10 ran a better 40 than Mike Williams and it didn't stop him from torching them for two touchdowns per week. No 175 lb corner or 200 lb safety in this league can stop Mike Williams going up for a ball over the middle or in the red zone. And no linbacker in this league has the feet and lateral quickness to cover him either. He's an unsolvable match up problem every week for the next 12 years and we missed out. If the NFL were as about speed as they say, we'd be recruiting wide outs from track teams and not footbal programs. The position is wide receiver. Not wide track star or wide 4x100 relay team runner. I know this. You all know this. The only people who dont' seem to know this are Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs. We could and should be going into this season with Kellen Winslow Jr. and Mike Williams on offense (and take pride in having the two biggest offensive match up problems in this league on the same side of the football) while Lavar Arrington and Champ Bailey or Fred Smoot anchors what is still one of the leagues best defenses. But instead, we are going to be the Miami Dolphins of the NFC East. A lack luster offensive club that in spite of its fast, physical defense, can still be beaten if you put up 13-15 points. And for the record, I don't give a rat's ass how good taylor and rogers turn out to be. If they aren't first ballot hall of famers considered among the best of all time at their positions, their careers will always pale in comparison to those of Willams and Winslow jr; especially if they spent 10 years together on the same team. And all of us redskin fans who wandered through the wilderness waiting for this chance will have to wonder what could have been. I never thought this day would come, when the team I was raised to love, the team that I saw in three super bowl parades would become like an ex girlfriend that I really loved before she broke my heart. I still care about her..but I will never trust her again and nor should I. That is why I am no longer a redskins fan. I will always care about them. But I will never love this team again.

04-23-2005, 08:51 PM	#2
BossHog Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Norfolk, Va Posts: 665	Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park? Good riddence, loser!

04-23-2005, 09:02 PM	#3
wolfeskins The Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: chesapeake,va. Posts: 2,160	Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park? if you let draft picks and free agents turn you from the skins then you were never really a TRUE fan to begin with. winslow jr. ?? you must be on crack.

04-23-2005, 08:52 PM	#4
skin4Life28 Special Teams Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Age: 38 Posts: 447	Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park? Bye bye then. Mike Williams is good, but will be a tight end sooner than later. Wether this team loses every game or drafts some clown I haven't heard of. I will always bleed burgandy and gold.

04-23-2005, 09:07 PM	#5
Hijinx The Starter Join Date: Apr 2005 Age: 50 Posts: 1,961	Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park? As will I always be die hard skins. However, I do agree with a good deal of what you have to say. A few mistakes here and there are part of being a fan of any team in any sport, but the Skins FO have become a laughing stock in the NFL. When a few days ago they made the trade for the 25th pick no one in the league, the press, or the fans could figure out what they were doing. And now that it is over I still can't figure out what they are doing. Even if you take for granted that we needed another QB and that Campbell is the: 1)QB of the future 2)best QB of the draft 3)the Messiah How can you say we needed to give up a 1st, 3rd and 4th for him, when I think he would have been there in the 2nd round. __________________ This is my signature, there are many like it, but this one is mine.

04-24-2005, 06:48 PM	#7
wolfeskins The Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: chesapeake,va. Posts: 2,160	Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park? EXIT0 your just used to all the high profile players that the skins have been getting since danny snyder took over. your used to the redskins winning the off season superbowl. finally things are getting back to normal in dc. just relax and enjoy this ride as gibbs returns this organization into a winning one.

04-23-2005, 08:57 PM	#10
heybigstar Special Teams Join Date: Oct 2004 Age: 41 Posts: 375	Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park? True that.. you never, know, 1) we could make a move tommorow 2) Rogers is a shutdown corner. 3) We make the playoffs next year>? __________________ Hail to the Redskins.

04-23-2005, 09:19 PM	#11
KLHJ2 Inactive Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: DC Metro Area Age: 47 Posts: 5,829	Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park? Let me start out by saying that I will always be a skins fan. I believe in Patrick Ramsey. I also trust coach Gibbs. Say what you want about Sean Taylor, but he is one hell of a player. Chris Cooley was a diamond in the rough.I like the fact that we picked up Carlos this year. I do not understand the drafting of a QB though, but I am confident that Gibbs and the front office know what they are doing.

04-23-2005, 09:20 PM	#12
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park? Exactly Hijinx - if this was actually our plan, why did we trade so fast instead of feeling the market out and trying to get the most value. I'm certainly not "turning on the skins" but I think the fans have a very legitimate right to gripe and wonder after the way this offseason has been handled. __________________ Best. Player. Available.

04-23-2005, 09:31 PM	#13
jamf Pro Bowl Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Diego Ca Posts: 5,348	Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park? why is everyone in love with mike williams? if he is so good why did 2 WR's go before him? In my opinion, mike williams is a keyshawn johnson clone. granted he will make alot of catches, but they wont be for more than 10 yards each. now to the original post: you would rather have winslow over taylor? are you kidding me? jesus christ man, go watch some arena football. DRIVER! run him over with the bandwagon!

04-23-2005, 09:48 PM	#14
glorydays Camp Scrub Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3	Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park? Bye Bye! You think that Winslow was a better "citizen" coming out of college than Taylor?? The "soldier" was the biggest punk in all of college sports. While, I can't defend the fact that this team traded a 1st, 3rd, and 4th round pick for the right to draft Jason whatshisname, I'm still a fan. You stick with your team through the thick and thin, even if the owner is an idiot, and his director of player personnel is a moron. Gibbs might not even be able to coach in today's NFL, but he most certainly deserves repect for what he's done for this franchise.

04-23-2005, 10:03 PM	#15
jdlea Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 41 Posts: 3,109	Re: what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park? Dan Snyder has successfully soured a lot of people on the Redskins. I can understand where he's coming from. I like how some of you attempted to call him a bandwagon fan when they haven't been good in about 15 years. I think if he were a bandwagon fan, he would have switched to the Cowboys. I get sick of all of this bandwagon and fair weather bs you guys try to throw out there. This "team" is being ruined by the organization. We're a lot like the 49ers in that respect.

what in the hell are they thinking at redskin park?

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