I knew the Pats were cheaters...

skinsfan69 · 09-12-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

Sorry, I wasn't making it personal, I just meant...they HAVE to be getting an advantage from it if they've been doing it for a while or even once at all. Why would they go through all of the effort if they gained nothing?

Like I said, too much has to happen in a short period of time in order for it to really work. Let's say the Jets call a 4-3 defense with a stunt and two blitzers. The Jets coach does his signal, then someone from the Pats has to pick that signal up from acorss the sideline, then relay the defense to Josh McDaniels since he is the playcaller. Then McDaniels has to call a play and a pass protection to off set that defense. All that has to happen in 40 seconds. Can it happen? Of course it can. But it's highly unlikely that it causes the outcome of a game. Let's put it this way. If they were doing this for a few years does it mean that if they didn't do it they would not have won 3 SB's? No way.

If you are the Jets and you are playing NE, they should have two guys doing dummy signals anyway just cause Eric M. use to coach there. Common sense right?

Personally, I think Bill B. is a cheating, not personality prick. He looks like a pure 100% dickhead. But I'm not going to sit here and say just cause they try and pick signals is the reason they are good. That is ridicules.

dgack · 09-12-2007, 11:24 AM

skinsfan, the article I read suggested they were "decoding" the audibles, not the playcalls to the line. So in theory the defense would know what the shifts and hot routes were when the Jets audibled.

That said, it would not surprise me if Belichick was trying to figure out some way to intercept incoming playcalls, because the guy just seems like such a win-at-any-cost, jagoff.

70Chip · 09-12-2007, 08:51 PM

Eric Mangini exposes Bill Belichick's spy games

mooby · 09-12-2007, 09:30 PM

If Roger Goodell suspended a quarterbacks coach for 5 games and fined him 100 grand because he tried HGH twice to improve his quality of life because he suffered from a really bad case of diabetes, I expect to see a much tougher punishment on Belichick. The guy was caught cheating, and he's an arrogant sob who wouldn't stop even though the Commish warned him before the season started.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 09-12-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Eric Mangini exposes Bill Belichick's spy games

Thanks for the link. I've always said that Belichick is overrated and this just adds to my reasons for thinking as much.

Here's some food for thought - Belichick was just 42-58 before Brady started. That means he lost about 60% of the time. Belichick's Patriots went just 5-13 before Brady started in the early part of the 2001 season. Brady-less Belichick-coached teams have posted losing records 5 times and winning records just once. Take away Brady and judge Belichick the head coach according to his wins and losses, and he isn't even mediocre.

dmek25 · 09-12-2007, 09:39 PM

SGG, finally someone that agrees with me about Belichick. Bledsoe doesn't get hurt, and how many super bowls do they win? I'm not saying he wouldn't have eventually pulled him. but how long until they got to that point? highly over rated in my opinion

jsarno · 09-12-2007, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooby

If Roger Goodell suspended a quarterbacks coach for 5 games and fined him 100 grand because he tried HGH twice to improve his quality of life because he suffered from a really bad case of diabetes, I expect to see a much tougher punishment on Belichick. The guy was caught cheating, and he's an arrogant sob who wouldn't stop even though the Commish warned him before the season started.

I agree, but I am not sure Goodell will punish him harder than Wilson. He SHOULD, but I don't think he will. I am expecting a draft pick, maybe two including a late rounder which is just a slap on the wrist.

mooby · 09-13-2007, 02:16 AM

I hope Belichick gets suspended, it might be 4 games, but I'm hoping it will be 8 because then we wouldn't have to face him when we play them in week 8.

If Goodell only takes away a couple of their draft picks, including a late rounder, it will show that only the players will be held truly accountable for their actions. That would be alienating the players imo, and that's not a good thing. Coaches/front office personal should be held just as accountable as the players for their actions.

I just realized something. Back in the Patriots golden days, I would keep hearing about how Belichick was something like 13-0 when he played a team for the second time in a season and he lost the first time. What if he was recording the signals the first game and then used that videotape to prepare for the second game? Of course he would have a much easier time against that team.

As for the whole radio deal, if he was using that to his advantage to then he deserves to be punished even more. I will be completely disgusted with him if that is true, he clearly knows no bounds.

And on a different note...

Patriots Planet - New England Patriots Forums - I'm Glad We Got Caught

street cred? Gridiron Gangsters?

Monkeydad · 09-13-2007, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooby

I just realized something. Back in the Patriots golden days, I would keep hearing about how Belichick was something like 13-0 when he played a team for the second time in a season and he lost the first time.

WOW. That could be huge.

Monkeydad · 09-13-2007, 10:12 AM

mheisig · 09-13-2007, 11:57 AM

I think everyone can just forget the idea of Goodell making them forfeit a game after the fact. As far as I know that's completely unprecedented in professional sports, besides the fact that even if the Patriots were stealing signals you can't prove they wouldn't have won the game anyway without stealing them. Regardless, a forfeit isn't happening.

Personally I think taking away draft picks is a slap on the wrist. Like someone else mentioned, the Patriots stock their picks anyway, and taking away picks punishes the entire organization by default for the sins of (potentially) a few. Taking away draft picks also doesn't necessarily hurt. Maybe they lose a good pick, maybe they don't, you'll never know. A massive fine and a lot of time of for a suspension will definitely hurt and definitely send a message, whereas taking draft picks just MIGHT hurt.

The individuals who had a hand in authorizing and directing this should be identified and punished individually, just as they would with steroids or gambling or personal misconduct. The coaching staff responsible should face some substantial fines and substantial suspension periods. By substantial I mean that if Goodell can identify that Belichick authorized or promoted this, he should be suspended for a year or more. That, to me, is the only equitable way send a message.

12thMan · 09-13-2007, 12:12 PM

Do you guys think when the Pats play away they'll get heckled by the fans?

I could just envision some nasty signs going up when they visit other stadiums.

Monkeydad · 09-13-2007, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Do you guys think when the Pats play away they'll get heckled by the fans?

I could just envision some nasty signs going up when they visit other stadiums.

Or everyone will make cardboard video cameras and point them at Belichick the whole game (since real cameras probably aren't allowed).

jsarno · 09-13-2007, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooby

I hope Belichick gets suspended, it might be 4 games, but I'm hoping it will be 8 because then we wouldn't have to face him when we play them in week 8.

If Goodell only takes away a couple of their draft picks, including a late rounder, it will show that only the players will be held truly accountable for their actions. That would be alienating the players imo, and that's not a good thing. Coaches/front office personal should be held just as accountable as the players for their actions.

I just realized something. Back in the Patriots golden days, I would keep hearing about how Belichick was something like 13-0 when he played a team for the second time in a season and he lost the first time. What if he was recording the signals the first game and then used that videotape to prepare for the second game? Of course he would have a much easier time against that team.

As for the whole radio deal, if he was using that to his advantage to then he deserves to be punished even more. I will be completely disgusted with him if that is true, he clearly knows no bounds.

And on a different note...

Patriots Planet - New England Patriots Forums - I'm Glad We Got Caught

street cred? Gridiron Gangsters?

See, that's why I think the ENTIRE TEAM needs to be punished. You take away their 1st pick, you take away that win and give it to the Jets, and you suspend Belichek for a couple games.

12thMan · 09-13-2007, 12:45 PM

I can just hear them interviewing Gibbs prior to the Pats game asking him about the cheating incident:

Reporter: Coach Gibbs, this week your 7-0 Redskins face the New England Patriots. What do you make of the alleged cheating by Bill Belichick?

Gibbs: Well first of all let me say that I think we have the greatest fans around, and they are absolutely great and I want to thank them for all the tremendous support they give us.

Reporter: Umm...okay, coach that's great and all, but what do you make of Belichick?

Gibbs: I think what you have up there in New England is a real classy organization, okay. Well coached team. A bunch of great guys that play their tales off. We're going to have a tough time defending Brady and Moss and that bunch up there. And boy can their fans can make a lot of noise...

Reporter: Scratching head.. Okay, let start over coach. Do you think Belichick chea..

Gibbs: (interupting in cackling laugh)...I tellya what, if they caught half the stuff me and Tony got away down there at Richmond 400, we wouldn't be racing cars today! (cackling laugh)

09-12-2007, 11:24 AM	#77
dgack The Starter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The ATX (formerly Balmer) Posts: 1,125	Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters... skinsfan, the article I read suggested they were "decoding" the audibles, not the playcalls to the line. So in theory the defense would know what the shifts and hot routes were when the Jets audibled. That said, it would not surprise me if Belichick was trying to figure out some way to intercept incoming playcalls, because the guy just seems like such a win-at-any-cost, jagoff.

09-12-2007, 08:51 PM	#78
70Chip Playmaker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Manassas Age: 54 Posts: 3,048	Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters... Eric Mangini exposes Bill Belichick's spy games __________________ This Monkey's Gone to Heaven

09-12-2007, 09:30 PM	#79
mooby Hug Anne Spyder Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 20,577	Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters... If Roger Goodell suspended a quarterbacks coach for 5 games and fined him 100 grand because he tried HGH twice to improve his quality of life because he suffered from a really bad case of diabetes, I expect to see a much tougher punishment on Belichick. The guy was caught cheating, and he's an arrogant sob who wouldn't stop even though the Commish warned him before the season started. __________________ Hail to the Football Team

09-12-2007, 09:39 PM	#81
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 63 Posts: 10,672	Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters... SGG, finally someone that agrees with me about Belichick. Bledsoe doesn't get hurt, and how many super bowls do they win? I'm not saying he wouldn't have eventually pulled him. but how long until they got to that point? highly over rated in my opinion __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

09-13-2007, 02:16 AM	#83
mooby Hug Anne Spyder Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 20,577	Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters... I hope Belichick gets suspended, it might be 4 games, but I'm hoping it will be 8 because then we wouldn't have to face him when we play them in week 8. If Goodell only takes away a couple of their draft picks, including a late rounder, it will show that only the players will be held truly accountable for their actions. That would be alienating the players imo, and that's not a good thing. Coaches/front office personal should be held just as accountable as the players for their actions. I just realized something. Back in the Patriots golden days, I would keep hearing about how Belichick was something like 13-0 when he played a team for the second time in a season and he lost the first time. What if he was recording the signals the first game and then used that videotape to prepare for the second game? Of course he would have a much easier time against that team. As for the whole radio deal, if he was using that to his advantage to then he deserves to be punished even more. I will be completely disgusted with him if that is true, he clearly knows no bounds. And on a different note... Patriots Planet - New England Patriots Forums - I'm Glad We Got Caught street cred? Gridiron Gangsters? __________________ Hail to the Football Team

09-13-2007, 10:12 AM	#85
Monkeydad Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: PA Age: 46 Posts: 17,460	Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters...

09-13-2007, 11:57 AM	#86
mheisig The Starter Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: The Southeast Age: 41 Posts: 2,119	Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters... I think everyone can just forget the idea of Goodell making them forfeit a game after the fact. As far as I know that's completely unprecedented in professional sports, besides the fact that even if the Patriots were stealing signals you can't prove they wouldn't have won the game anyway without stealing them. Regardless, a forfeit isn't happening. Personally I think taking away draft picks is a slap on the wrist. Like someone else mentioned, the Patriots stock their picks anyway, and taking away picks punishes the entire organization by default for the sins of (potentially) a few. Taking away draft picks also doesn't necessarily hurt. Maybe they lose a good pick, maybe they don't, you'll never know. A massive fine and a lot of time of for a suspension will definitely hurt and definitely send a message, whereas taking draft picks just MIGHT hurt. The individuals who had a hand in authorizing and directing this should be identified and punished individually, just as they would with steroids or gambling or personal misconduct. The coaching staff responsible should face some substantial fines and substantial suspension periods. By substantial I mean that if Goodell can identify that Belichick authorized or promoted this, he should be suspended for a year or more. That, to me, is the only equitable way send a message. __________________ Your post count, reputation score, popularity ranking, VIP tag or funny signature has no bearing on how I value you as an individual.

09-13-2007, 12:12 PM	#87
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,460	Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters... Do you guys think when the Pats play away they'll get heckled by the fans? I could just envision some nasty signs going up when they visit other stadiums.

09-13-2007, 12:45 PM	#90
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,460	Re: I knew the Pats were cheaters... I can just hear them interviewing Gibbs prior to the Pats game asking him about the cheating incident: Reporter: Coach Gibbs, this week your 7-0 Redskins face the New England Patriots. What do you make of the alleged cheating by Bill Belichick? Gibbs: Well first of all let me say that I think we have the greatest fans around, and they are absolutely great and I want to thank them for all the tremendous support they give us. Reporter: Umm...okay, coach that's great and all, but what do you make of Belichick? Gibbs: I think what you have up there in New England is a real classy organization, okay. Well coached team. A bunch of great guys that play their tales off. We're going to have a tough time defending Brady and Moss and that bunch up there. And boy can their fans can make a lot of noise... Reporter: Scratching head.. Okay, let start over coach. Do you think Belichick chea.. Gibbs: (interupting in cackling laugh)...I tellya what, if they caught half the stuff me and Tony got away down there at Richmond 400, we wouldn't be racing cars today! (cackling laugh)

I knew the Pats were cheaters...

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