USADA strips Lance Armstrong of all TdF titles; banned for life

[mooby]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

What can the UADA prove now, that they couldn't prove years/decades ago?

I don't think it's about what they can prove, it's more about the fact Lance Armstrong gave up his fight against them. So naturally their reaction was to "crush" him. Honestly, if he was doping, and it was as widespread as we are led to believe, I think that's more of a systemic problem than it is the fault of one man. I mean, what are they going to do? Promote the 2nd place winners to winners now? What if they were doping too? Give it to the 3rd place guy? What if he was doping too? It's an endless cycle.

I'm not saying I approve of Armstrong doping, but I think there's fault on both sides of this. I think the USADA needs to do a better job, and I do think Armstrong was doping.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by mooby

I don't think it's about what they can prove, it's more about the fact Lance Armstrong gave up his fight against them. So naturally their reaction was to "crush" him. Honestly, if he was doping, and it was as widespread as we are led to believe, I think that's more of a systemic problem than it is the fault of one man. I mean, what are they going to do? Promote the 2nd place winners to winners now? What if they were doping too? Give it to the 3rd place guy? What if he was doping too? It's an endless cycle.

I'm not saying I approve of Armstrong doping, but I think there's fault on both sides of this. I think the USADA needs to do a better job, and I do think Armstrong was doping.

Obviously that rarely works with the lone exception forcing Penn State to vacate wins and dropping Joe Pa out of first place on the all time wins list.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by mooby

I don't think it's about what they can prove, it's more about the fact Lance Armstrong gave up his fight against them. So naturally their reaction was to "crush" him. Honestly, if he was doping, and it was as widespread as we are led to believe, I think that's more of a systemic problem than it is the fault of one man. I mean, what are they going to do? Promote the 2nd place winners to winners now? What if they were doping too? Give it to the 3rd place guy? What if he was doping too? It's an endless cycle.

I'm not saying I approve of Armstrong doping, but I think there's fault on both sides of this. I think the USADA needs to do a better job, and I do think Armstrong was doping.

The endless cycle was the organizations accusations against Armstrong. I think his cancer treatments gave off suspicious testing results. But he never failed a drug test, never had any evidence against him but hearsay (especially from guys who were proven dopers).

If the usada or whatever says they care about keeping the sport clean, and the tests are important, then how can they punish Armstrong when he passed every test?

I think that unless there's evidence that proves Armstrong cheated, he'll always be remembered as the real 7 time Tour Le France champion, the greatest cyclist ever.

edit: If it wasn't about proof, what was the fight about?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

The endless cycle was the organizations accusations against Armstrong. I think his cancer treatments gave off suspicious testing results. But he never failed a drug test, never had any evidence against him but hearsay (especially from guys who were proven dopers).

If the usada or whatever says they care about keeping the sport clean, and the tests are important, then how can they punish Armstrong when he passed every test?

I think that unless there's evidence that proves Armstrong cheated, he'll always be remembered as the real 7 time Tour Le France champion, the greatest cyclist ever.

edit: If it wasn't about proof, what was the fight about?

I think the USADA wanted to run Armstrong's name through the mud. I don't think they had the evidence needed (other than a bunch of former dopers saying he did it) and I do believe had Armstrong continued the fight, there was a realistic chance of his name being cleared. But since he decided to give it up, the USADA put the hammer down.

As far as passing tests go, I think technology exists that would allow dopers to be able to pass these tests. I mean, was Onterrio Smith ever suspended for a drug violation before they caught him at an airport with the Whizzinator? Some dopers are always able to stay a step ahead. Either way, most people have their mind made up about this Armstrong situation. Either he's guilty or he's not. I just think they're making him the fall guy on this, instead of addressing the larger problem itself.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by mooby

I think the USADA wanted to run Armstrong's name through the mud. I don't think they had the evidence needed (other than a bunch of former dopers saying he did it) and I do believe had Armstrong continued the fight, there was a realistic chance of his name being cleared. But since he decided to give it up, the USADA put the hammer down.

As far as passing tests go, I think technology exists that would allow dopers to be able to pass these tests. I mean, was Onterrio Smith ever suspended for a drug violation before they caught him at an airport with the Whizzinator? Some dopers are always able to stay a step ahead. Either way, most people have their mind made up about this Armstrong situation. Either he's guilty or he's not. I just think they're making him the fall guy on this, instead of addressing the larger problem itself.

I agree with you. Except at least I don't think the investigations would have ever stopped. No matter how many times his name was "cleared", another investigation would pop up.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by mooby

I don't think it's about what they can prove, it's more about the fact Lance Armstrong gave up his fight against them. So naturally their reaction was to "crush" him. Honestly, if he was doping, and it was as widespread as we are led to believe, I think that's more of a systemic problem than it is the fault of one man. I mean, what are they going to do? Promote the 2nd place winners to winners now? What if they were doping too? Give it to the 3rd place guy? What if he was doping too? It's an endless cycle.

I'm not saying I approve of Armstrong doping, but I think there's fault on both sides of this. I think the USADA needs to do a better job, and I do think Armstrong was doping.

LOL. Well played sir...well played indeed

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by mooby

I don't think it's about what they can prove, it's more about the fact Lance Armstrong gave up his fight against them. So naturally their reaction was to "crush" him. Honestly, if he was doping, and it was as widespread as we are led to believe, I think that's more of a systemic problem than it is the fault of one man. I mean, what are they going to do? Promote the 2nd place winners to winners now? What if they were doping too? Give it to the 3rd place guy? What if he was doping too? It's an endless cycle.

I'm not saying I approve of Armstrong doping, but I think there's fault on both sides of this. I think the USADA needs to do a better job, and I do think Armstrong was doping.

Here's a likely truth WADA and USADA won't publicize quite as much. There is a distinct possibility the every single rider in all 7 tours Lance won doped. It has been WIDESPREAD. Multiple teams had sophisticated and coordinated programs designed to gain performance enhancement and avoid detection. If the ADAs went after everyone the same the whole sport would crumble. But they don't like Armstrong and view taking him down as symbolic so they spent years and tons of money to badger him to the point of exhaustion. And does anyone really care? I don't. He still a bad ass who won 7 tours to me.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Here's a likely truth WADA and USADA won't publicize quite as much. There is a distinct possibility the every single rider in all 7 tours Lance won doped. It has been WIDESPREAD. Multiple teams had sophisticated and coordinated programs designed to gain performance enhancement and avoid detection. If the ADAs went after everyone the same the whole sport would crumble. But they don't like Armstrong and view taking him down as symbolic so they spent years and tons of money to badger him to the point of exhaustion. And does anyone really care? I don't. He still a bad ass who won 7 tours to me.

FRPLG, just in case this hasn't been made clear, I am aware and I do tend to believe the allegations that widespread doping is evident in the sport. I agree with you in that I think the USADA is only going after Armstrong because of his titles and fame. One way or another it's clear he's taking the fall for this.