Civil Discussion About Religion

without going into details, every evolutionary belief has been proved to be nothing more than theorys

The only reason the theories can't be proven was because we weren't around to record history over the course of billions of years. I'd love for you to go into details, because all of the arguments against the theory of evolution are scientifically flimsy at best.

People believe it because deep down they don't want to face the alternative: that when you die you go nowhere, your life is simply over. And that your life was not part of some grand scheme; you simply lived and died.

Those alternatives are scary, but they're the truth. Religion is just a crutch humans use to go about their daily lives in false comfort.


But how do you know that? Again, I'm pretty much on your side with that, I think pretty much when you die, you just die just like you. But how do you know? Thats the best part about the whole thing, is you really dont know. How do you explain people "leaving their bodies and then coming back to life". Just some of the things that happen in this world just seem to weird to me to not belive there is some type of a god, and then at the same time it sounds rediculous to me. But I'm with Matty, I really dont belive in much, but I really cant disprove anything. I find myself praying to god somtimes when I want somthing, ya know? Unforunatley we'll all find out the truth one way or the other lol.

PS: Saden, you're right. When you posted this I was just waiting for the war, maybe if you just put Civil in front of anything touchy, we'll all behave lol.

Hold on a sec...we, as humans, love to lump in evolution and the bible. The fact is the bible does not speak of evolution. This does not mean that since we believe in evolution the bible is incorrect, or that if we beleive in the bible that evolution is incorrect. Again I say, the bible is to answer the question of who, not how.
I don't mean to sound as if I don't beleive in evolution, cause I do, but waaay back everyone KNEW the world was flat, and there was plenty of evidence to convince everyone that it was true. OVERWHELMING evidence. So yes, evolution is a belief adopted by the scientific world. It can't really be proven 100%, just like the existance of God can't be proven 100%. Nor can either be disproven 100%. I am a Christian, and believe that God does exist, but I would not go so far as to say that it is FACT (not that you said that word) when it is opinion. Theory is just that...an opinion. However it is widely recognized throughout the science community that they are unsure of how everything first started. They can go back to the big bang time (or so) and have theories of how it all started. When you ask them where the rocks came from, they don't know, in fact a lot of scientists became Christians due to the fact that they can't figure it out and that it is obviously a design from a higher being. You can keep going farther and farther back until you can't go back anymore, then ask yourself what is left. In my opinion, it can only be God...but if you choose to believe there is none, then what is the answer?

The limits of the human mind, that's the answer. Why is it that everything had to be created by someone or something? Is there a law that says all matter had to come from somewhere? Why did it have to be created? Why couldn't it just exist?

The concept that everything was somehow created comes from the book of Genesis. Deep down, people believe somehow the Earth, world, universe, whatever, was created. Then they try to apply that belief to the Big Bang and everything else, asking "well if the universe came from a Big Bang, then where did all the matter come in the first place?"

The true question: was matter created by someone/something? Or does it just exist?

But how do you know that? Again, I'm pretty much on your side with that, I think pretty much when you die, you just die just like you. But how do you know? Thats the best part about the whole thing, is you really dont know. How do you explain people "leaving their bodies and then coming back to life". Just some of the things that happen in this world just seem to weird to me to not belive there is some type of a god, and then at the same time it sounds rediculous to me. But I'm with Matty, I really dont belive in much, but I really cant disprove anything. I find myself praying to god somtimes when I want somthing, ya know? Unforunatley we'll all find out the truth one way or the other lol.

PS: Saden, you're right. When you posted this I was just waiting for the war, maybe if you just put Civil in front of anything touchy, we'll all behave lol.

You're absolutely right, nobody knows for sure what happens when we die. A lot of scientists theorize that your brain stores a lifetime of memories, kind of like a computer. When you're alive, there's a system in place to suppress all of your memories from coming to the forefront of your attention, so that you can focus on learning and doing tasks. But when you die, that system begins to fail and all of your stored memories come to the forefront of your attention.

They theorize that when people have had near death experiences and have seen images of loved ones, they're actually hallucinating because of a combination of 1) the lack of oxygen to the brain (hence a change in chemical balance) and 2) memories surfacing in the brain.

You're right, these theories have not been proven, hence we call them theories. I find those explanations a lot more plausible then the existence of a heaven and a God. But you're right, I do not know for sure.

But an examination of human nature sure does point in one direction: humans are scared, fragile creatures. The fact that we are self-aware and conscious, combined with the fact that we will all die, combined with the fact that we feel so much grief when a loved one dies, creates a great deal of anxiety and defines the human condition. We search for an explanation of what life means and what death is like, but we find none. In the absence of explanation, we fall back on faith. Because without it, we're too scared to face what is most likely the truth:

That when a loved one dies, you will never see them again. That when you die, you will cease to exist. And that your life was just that, a life, nothing more.

When you read those words there, did you get a chill up your spine? Did you feel a little scared or even a little depressed? That's why religion was created: people just don't want to believe it. And they'd much rather go through life believing something else.

I can't knock it. Anything that makes you feel less scared is probably a good thing.

You're absolutely right, nobody knows for sure what happens when we die. A lot of scientists theorize that your brain stores a lifetime of memories, kind of like a computer. When you're alive, there's a system in place to suppress all of your memories from coming to the forefront of your attention, so that you can focus on learning and doing tasks. But when you die, that system begins to fail and all of your stored memories come to the forefront of your attention.

They theorize that when people have had near death experiences and have seen images of loved ones, they're actually hallucinating because of a combination of 1) the lack of oxygen to the brain (hence a change in chemical balance) and 2) memories surfacing in the brain.

You're right, these theories have not been proven, hence we call them theories. I find those explanations a lot more plausible then the existence of a heaven and a God. But you're right, I do not know for sure.

But an examination of human nature sure does point in one direction: humans are scared, fragile creatures. The fact that we are self-aware and conscious, combined with the fact that we will all die, combined with the fact that we feel so much grief when a loved one dies, creates a great deal of anxiety and defines the human condition. We search for an explanation of what life means and what death is like, but we find none. In the absence of explanation, we fall back on faith. Because without it, we're too scared to face what is most likely the truth:

That when a loved one dies, you will never see them again. That when you die, you will cease to exist. And that your life was just that, a life, nothing more.

When you read those words there, did you get a chill up your spine? Did you feel a little scared or even a little depressed? That's why religion was created: people just don't want to believe it. And they'd much rather go through life believing something else.

I can't knock it. Anything that makes you feel less scared is probably a good thing.

Thats pretty much exactly what I think. I think alot of religions are so people feel better somtimes, and you know what good for them. I mean I tend to have the faith that there is a heaven, and when someone dies they have a spirt somewhere...but do I really belive it? Not really. But it makes me feel better about it, so it's what people do. But that post is pretty much 100% spot on what I belive. And you're right, you can't knock it because dying is a scary thing to think about, so whatever you need to do to face it is what you should do.

Those alternatives are scary, but they're the truth. Religion is just a crutch humans use to go about their daily lives in false comfort.

Maybe so, but what is the harm in that?
Do you tell your kids that life sucks? Or do you tell them they are special and they can acheive anything they set their mind to, and guard them from violent images on TV etc?

The limits of the human mind, that's the answer. Why is it that everything had to be created by someone or something? Is there a law that says all matter had to come from somewhere? Why did it have to be created? Why couldn't it just exist?

The concept that everything was somehow created comes from the book of Genesis. Deep down, people believe somehow the Earth, world, universe, whatever, was created. Then they try to apply that belief to the Big Bang and everything else, asking "well if the universe came from a Big Bang, then where did all the matter come in the first place?"

The true question: was matter created by someone/something? Or does it just exist?

That's a very interesting question. I look at patterns and find my own conclusions...this is why I am an outstanding roulette player...the whole world has a way of evening itself out, you just need to find the patterns. You came from you parents, and their parents, and their parents before them. Everything has a beginning...think about that...everything you know in this world had a beginning, so why would something like the pre earth rocks not have a beginning?

That's a very interesting question. I look at patterns and find my own conclusions...this is why I am an outstanding roulette player...the whole world has a way of evening itself out, you just need to find the patterns. You came from you parents, and their parents, and their parents before them. Everything has a beginning...think about that...everything you know in this world had a beginning, so why would something like the pre earth rocks not have a beginning?

OK not to get off topic, but do you honestly believe someone can be a good or bad roullette player? I don't know how many statistics classes you've taken over your lifetime, but basically, if you flip a fair and balanced coin, what are the chances it will land on heads? 50% right? Everyone knows that one. OK, so let's say the coin just landed on heads. Flip it again. What are the chances it will land on heads this time? 50% right? Again, an easy one. Now, imagine it has landed on heads 5 times in a row. Now flip it again. What are the chances it lands on heads this time?

50%.

The point is the odds don't change based on whatever patterns you're observing. Same goes for roullette, except instead of the coin resulting in two different outcomes, the ball can land on 38 different outcomes. So what are the chances that it will land on 00? 1/38.

Now imagine it has landed on 00 three times in a row. Now bet again. What are the chances it will land on 00 this time? 1/38.

There are no such things as patterns in roullette. The results are completely random. That's why in Vegas they say "if you think you have a roullette system, you've lost already."

Any success you've had in the past is purely the result of blind luck. You just happened to hit on the odds. If you're so good at it, and can predict the patterns, then why aren't you in Vegas now making a living off your prowess?

And that's the human condition in a nutshell. The need to search for patterns or meaning in completely random, unrelated, and meaningless events.

Maybe so, but what is the harm in that?
Do you tell your kids that life sucks? Or do you tell them they are special and they can acheive anything they set their mind to, and guard them from violent images on TV etc?

Well first off, we're not discussion what we tell our kids, we're discussing what adults believe. But no, there is no harm in having faith in something if it makes you feel better (provided you're not organizing against other faiths).

I'm not arguing whether religion makes you feel better. It certainly does. I'm just arguing what is most likely the truth: there is no God. People just believe in him to feel better about their mortality, and all else that they cannot explain.

I do the same thing as GManc. When my grandmom died I tried to think of her as living on in heaven. Or at least living on in my heart and in my memories. Did I believe it was the truth? Hell no. But I told myself that, and it got me through a rough time.

And if religion can do that for you, even if it's bunk, then it's a well-guided thing.

Like I said, I don't think Jesus was the son of God, or even that God exists. But nevertheless, the stories and lessons in the Bible are a great way to live your life. Whether you believe or not, that's not the point. It's a great example, fact or fiction.

The only reason the theories can't be proven was because we weren't around to record history over the course of billions of years. I'd love for you to go into details, because all of the arguments against the theory of evolution are scientifically flimsy at best.

the reason they cannot be proven is becaue they are just theoies. why is it people need scientific proof to know if something exists ? i believe some poeple who are non believers use science as a crutch. they are fearfull of what happens after death and they say to themselves "well i can't see god and there's not enough scientific evidence to prove he is real, so i'll just continue to not believe".

can you see the wind ? no, but you can see and feel the effects of the wind. what is your reasoning for believing there is a thing called wind? is it because some scientists created a way to measure the speed of it.