FISA with Telecom Immunity Passed

Do you believe the threat from fundamental Islamists is perceived and not real? They have openly declared war on the United States and their objective is to have one world under Sharia law. Are they an immediate threat to succeed? No. However the threat they pose is very real.

I do agree with you on protecting our liberties, but allowing the government to actively pursue our enemies through surveillance IMO does not infringe on our liberties, as long as there is ultimate oversight by the legislative and judicial branch, which there is.

and parts of the middle east have hated us intensely since the 50s (formation of isreal, overthrow of iranian democracy for british oil interests). the war on terror is an endless and "fake" war. we have intelligence agencies and special operations groups, and if the "war" ended tomorrow, nothing would change... the security has been improved (though it's still not great).

al qaeda has real computer infrastructure now though, they know what crypto is, this isn't going to catch anyone with half a brain or stop those using VOIP (which is much cheaper and very easy to encrypt).

I'm just saying, you're losing privacy and gaining nothing except the ability to catch really really stupid terrorists that probably aren't going to be all that effective anyways.

this would be much better at busting drug rings than anything else.

btw, if there is no watchdog group to check for abuses (even after the fact) you're pretty much guaranteed to have abuses.

BernieHund: The Political Watchdog (http://berniehund.com/)

The government can listen in on me anytime they want. I hope they like being bored.

The reality is that the NSA can listen to whatever they want anytime they want and there's nothing the courts or activists or even the POTUS can do about it. This train left the station in the 1970s.

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Echelon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON)

and parts of the middle east have hated us intensely since the 50s (formation of isreal, overthrow of iranian democracy for british oil interests). the war on terror is an endless and "fake" war. we have intelligence agencies and special operations groups, and if the "war" ended tomorrow, nothing would change... the security has been improved (though it's still not great).

We definitely agree on this point. While I don't think war on terror itself is fake, we should be fighting it in a much more clandestine way. I don't like the idea of our troops basically being targets to draw out terrorists. Mass deployments are also ridiculously expensive.

When Bush 1 stopped from going all the way into Iraq in Desert Storm he was heavily criticized, it appears he had a lot more wisdom than many gave him credit for.

We definitely agree on this point. While I don't think war on terror itself is fake, we should be fighting it in a much more clandestine way. I don't like the idea of our troops basically being targets to draw out terrorists. Mass deployments are also ridiculously expensive.

When Bush 1 stopped from going all the way into Iraq in Desert Storm he was heavily criticized, it appears he had a lot more wisdom than many gave him credit for.

they set mission goals, they drew up the contingencies, and they followed their plan.

powell is a better man than rumsfeld and cheney combined. too bad he got played in the whole deal :/. rumsfeld's "plan as you go without intel" version of waging a war is just about the stupidest thing i've ever seen.

and parts of the middle east have hated us intensely since the 50s (formation of isreal, overthrow of iranian democracy for british oil interests). the war on terror is an endless and "fake" war. we have intelligence agencies and special operations groups, and if the "war" ended tomorrow, nothing would change... the security has been improved (though it's still not great).

al qaeda has real computer infrastructure now though, they know what crypto is, this isn't going to catch anyone with half a brain or stop those using VOIP (which is much cheaper and very easy to encrypt).

I'm just saying, you're losing privacy and gaining nothing except the ability to catch really really stupid terrorists that probably aren't going to be all that effective anyways.

this would be much better at busting drug rings than anything else.
Those three guys we just rescued last week from that terrorist group was done by using wire taps so it does work and who said terrorist where smart to start with.

people talk about drinking the redskins kool aid. firstdown, you definitely have sipped on the Bush kool aid:(

people talk about drinking the redskins kool aid. firstdown, you definitely have sipped on the Bush kool aid:(

Sipps on it!?!?!? No way! He gulps it! :)

people talk about drinking the redskins kool aid. firstdown, you definitely have sipped on the Bush kool aid:(
Well I guess the guy for the AP was drinking the same stuff then.
Journal & Courier (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/C/COLOMBIA_CHOKING_THE_REBELS?SITE=INLAF&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2008-07-10-20-41-47)

Known as "Alliance," it began with a satellite phone call in 2003, just weeks after the Americans' surveillance plane crashed in the southern Colombian jungle, according to U.S. and Colombian investigators and court documents.
The call came from Nancy Conde, the regional finance and supply chief for the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC, whose boyfriend would become the American hostages' jailer. She was calling confederates in Miami to see if they could supply the rebels with some satellite phones.
What Conde didn't know was that state security agents were listening.
U.S. law officers arrested the Miami contacts, who in exchange for promises of reduced sentences put Conde in touch with an FBI front company, according to a U.S. law enforcement official involved in the investigation, who spoke on condition of anonymity for security reasons.

calm down. im just trying to have alittle fun with you:)