Where are Kelly & Thomas?

I'm interested in answers, just not the half-assed ones. Or maybe the original argument is flawed lending itself to less than ideal answers, I dunno.

If Hixon isn't developing these gems, and these guys leave and aren't developed elsewhere either, perhaps they are just bums to begin with and it's a talent issue vs. coaching.

I'm interested in answers, just not the half-assed ones. Or maybe the original argument is flawed lending itself to less than ideal answers, I dunno.

If Hixon isn't developing these gems, and these guys leave and aren't developed elsewhere either, perhaps they are just bums to begin with and it's a talent issue vs. coaching.
I wonder how you feel about our overall ability to evaluate talent. I mean, obviously our scouts can't evaluate receivers. We have drafted and brought in bum after bum after bum, touted them all off-season as excellent workers, and then bam they all are bums. So does that translate all through out in your opinion, or is it only in receivers that we bring in bum after bum. Certainly I think our pro and college scouts are very effective at bringing good players in.

If I re-phrase the question to say "what part of our program for receivers keeps us from putting 3 quality starters on the field? " is that a better question? Are we scouting poor prospects? Are the players just worthless once they get here? Is Danny not investing enough in bringing in quality guys? Maybe there just aren't enough talented rookies in the draft for us to get the ones our scouting department really wants?

Any way I break it down, I see Hixon as replaceable. I can't believe we would do any worse, but we could do a whole lot better.

I'm interested in answers, just not the half-assed ones. Or maybe the original argument is flawed lending itself to less than ideal answers, I dunno.

If Hixon isn't developing these gems, and these guys leave and aren't developed elsewhere either, perhaps they are just bums to begin with and it's a talent issue vs. coaching.

Matty you are being very cynical. You know full well what this person is trying to say. Giving a name is not necessary when you look at Hixon's full body of work as far as coaching WRs goes. Maybe it is the talent that is being brought in. Maybe its the evaluation process. But overall a coach should make players better. If you are a WR coach you would be teaching your receivers the tools they need to be successful. He hasn't. Plain and simple. Whether they are a 1st rounders or undrafted he hasn't yielded any results from the players that are brought in. ARE and Moss were already vets before they came to this team. So who is he improving? He isn't doing that well as a teacher when we bring in WRs and they can barely make a play. Zorn says Mitchell does not know the short routes. How long does it take to learn? Who is supposed to teach him? If you are a teacher you bring the best out of a student. You might not be able to make a F student a A student. But you should atleast be able to get them to a D or C-. If not. Why is he here?

I think the issue is that these guys are still on the team. There are 10 WRs drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round of the 2008 draft who contribute to their teams or atleast show flashes of ability. We see nothing in return from Kelly and Thomas.
I'm concerned that Cerrato won't cut a guy he drafted because it would confirm that he made a mistake drafting that player.
Also, Thomas needs to get his butt on special teams. He is too gifted of an athlete to not be a Gunner or returner and it's not like we want to save him for WR.

They need to be in the position to make plays.. it looks like Zorn is trying to wean Kelly in, but admitted to using Thomas mostly to open up other guys which doesn't make a lot of sense to me

I don't know what's keeping him from getting opportunities other than playcalling.. I guess that you could blame Hixon if he's not developing properly/correcting mistakes/learning..

as far as special teams, no clue... maybe danny smith likes others over him.. though we do use him some in returns

Have any of those guys gone on to be stars elsewhere?

I'm not sure what tossing up a list of camp bodies really shows.
Not so much but you don't find a lot of teams willing to take on a guy who couldn't get playing time after a couple of years either.

I wonder how you feel about our overall ability to evaluate talent. I mean, obviously our scouts can't evaluate receivers. We have drafted and brought in bum after bum after bum, touted them all off-season as excellent workers, and then bam they all are bums. So does that translate all through out in your opinion, or is it only in receivers that we bring in bum after bum. Certainly I think our pro and college scouts are very effective at bringing good players in.

If I re-phrase the question to say "what part of our program for receivers keeps us from putting 3 quality starters on the field? " is that a better question? Are we scouting poor prospects? Are the players just worthless once they get here? Is Danny not investing enough in bringing in quality guys? Maybe there just aren't enough talented rookies in the draft for us to get the ones our scouting department really wants?

Any way I break it down, I see Hixon as replaceable. I can't believe we would do any worse, but we could do a whole lot better.

Marko looked pretty good in August and at least earned a roster spot. Still yet to see how he looks in real action but there's some promise there.

I'm still not ready to give up Thomas and Kelly. We'll see how that plays out.

Matty you are being very cynical. You know full well what this person is trying to say. Giving a name is not necessary when you look at Hixon's full body of work as far as coaching WRs goes. Maybe it is the talent that is being brought in. Maybe its the evaluation process. But overall a coach should make players better. If you are a WR coach you would be teaching your receivers the tools they need to be successful. He hasn't. Plain and simple. Whether they are a 1st rounders or undrafted he hasn't yielded any results from the players that are brought in. ARE and Moss were already vets before they came to this team. So who is he improving? He isn't doing that well as a teacher when we bring in WRs and they can barely make a play. Zorn says Mitchell does not know the short routes. How long does it take to learn? Who is supposed to teach him? If you are a teacher you bring the best out of a student. You might not be able to make a F student a A student. But you should atleast be able to get them to a D or C-. If not. Why is he here?

No, I'm really not. If the argument is Hixon sucks and the reasoning is because he hasn't been able to make stars out of bums who haven't don't anything anywhere else either, I guess I just don't buy that as a legit answer.

I think overall people place too much emphasis on coaching at times. Sometimes you just don't have the horses. We really haven't had a ton of talent at WR for years now. Moss is good but a borderline #1. ARE is a slot guy. Thomas and Kelly are still pretty green experience wise.

I'm not saying Hixon is anything great, but look at a comparable situation with someone like Bugel. He hasn't been able to turn shit into stars either. Why? The talent really hasn't been there.

At what point though do we say "You've made it to the NFL. To have gotten this far you should know how to run certain routes"?

Typically when a guy is in the starting lineup, I guess that doesn't work for us.

No, I'm really not. If the argument is Hixon sucks and the reasoning is because he hasn't been able to make stars out of bums who haven't don't anything anywhere else either, I guess I just don't buy that as a legit answer.

I think overall people place too much emphasis on coaching at times. Sometimes you just don't have the horses. We really haven't had a ton of talent at WR for years now. Moss is good but a borderline #1. ARE is a slot guy. Thomas and Kelly are still pretty green experience wise.

I'm not saying Hixon is anything great, but look at a comparable situation with someone like Bugel. He hasn't been able to turn shit into stars either. Why? The talent really hasn't been there.

Who are our big talent evaluators are WR? Does that start at the scouts and work all of the way to the FO?

Everybody is missing on every pick in the past.. well almost forever?

I mean I don't know a lot about Hixon, I'd like to see him make somebody at least solid, but it's not like we've had WR issues for only the what, 5 years he's been here?

Time will tell , lets face it , if Kelly or Thomas were on the Colts , Manning would make them look pretty darn good , as he has done with some very young WR's , Garcon / Collie .