Utah killer executed by firing squad

[GMScud]

Firing squad? I had no idea this was still used as a method of execution. Damn.

Firing squad executes convicted killer Ronnie Lee Gardner

[Big C]

old school, i like. i remember reading about him wanting it this way a while back. old school=good. hehe.

[Lotus]

A firing squad is abnormal as a method of execution. They only used it because he requested it.

We as a country need to wake up and abolish the death penalty. It is an expensive waste.

Note:
1) contrary to popular belief, the death penalty is more expensive. It costs about $750,000 to keep someone in maximum security for life, and maximum security protects society by keeping the murderer locked up. However, because of legal appeals, each death penalty case costs $3-4 million. So, for example, a recent study showed that Florida could save $51 million a year by abolishing the death penalty. The old argument that "I'm not gonna pay to keep a murderer alive" is financial nonsense. This is a big reason why New Jersey abolished the death penalty last year.

2) numerous studies have shown that the death penalty does not deter crime. Almost all of the states with the highest murder rates have the death penalty. Almost all of the states with the lowest murder rates do not have the death penalty.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by Lotus

A firing squad is abnormal as a method of execution. They only used it because he requested it.

We as a country need to wake up and abolish the death penalty. It is an expensive waste.

Note:
1) contrary to popular belief, the death penalty is more expensive. It costs about $750,000 to keep someone in maximum security for life, and maximum security protects society by keeping the murderer locked up. However, because of legal appeals, each death penalty case costs $3-4 million. So, for example, a recent study showed that Florida could save $51 million a year by abolishing the death penalty. The old argument that "I'm not gonna pay to keep a murderer alive" is financial nonsense. This is a big reason why New Jersey abolished the death penalty last year.

2) numerous studies have shown that the death penalty does not deter crime. Almost all of the states with the highest murder rates have the death penalty. Almost all of the states with the lowest murder rates do not have the death penalty.

Wrong Lotus. Being burned at the stake is cruel and unusual. George Washington had people executed by firing squad. It is still on the books today as is the gas chamber and hanging.

A bullet costs next to nothing. Letting criminals stay on death-row for years to appease bleeding hearts is expensive.

Rapist and murderers should all be shot! MF each and every one of them. Better yet, televise it too.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Wrong Lotus. Being burned at the stake is cruel and unusual. George Washington had people executed by firing squad. It is still on the books today as is the gas chamber and hanging.

A bullet costs next to nothing. Letting criminals stay on death-row for years to appease bleeding hearts is expensive.

Rapist and murderers should all be shot! MF each and every one of them. Better yet, televise it too.

As for the firing squad, I wasn't saying anything different than you are. It is just not the usual, that's all.

As for "Letting criminals stay on death-row for years to appease bleeding hearts is expensive," as I have already shown, it is actually less expensive than executions.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by Lotus

As for the firing squad, I wasn't saying anything different than you are. It is just not the usual, that's all.

As for "Letting criminals stay on death-row for years to appease bleeding hearts is expensive," as I have already shown, it is actually less expensive than executions.

Dude you're reaching.

Food, clothing, and shelter for years = $

Have the scum dig his own grave then shooting his ass = cheap and legal

You don't need to be a genius to get that.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

Dude you're reaching.

Food, clothing, and shelter for years = $

Have the scum dig his own grave then shooting his ass = cheap and legal

You don't need to be a genius to get that.

Life in prison under maximum security = $750,000

Court costs for the state in a death penalty case = $3mil. to $4 mil.

Tramp, the math is easy on this one.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by Lotus

A firing squad is abnormal as a method of execution. They only used it because he requested it.

We as a country need to wake up and abolish the death penalty. It is an expensive waste.

Note:
1) contrary to popular belief, the death penalty is more expensive. It costs about $750,000 to keep someone in maximum security for life, and maximum security protects society by keeping the murderer locked up. However, because of legal appeals, each death penalty case costs $3-4 million. So, for example, a recent study showed that Florida could save $51 million a year by abolishing the death penalty. The old argument that "I'm not gonna pay to keep a murderer alive" is financial nonsense. This is a big reason why New Jersey abolished the death penalty last year.

2) numerous studies have shown that the death penalty does not deter crime. Almost all of the states with the highest murder rates have the death penalty. Almost all of the states with the lowest murder rates do not have the death penalty.

I'll back you up here. I don't support the death penalty either, but when the circumstances are right, I support vengeance killing.

My basic point of view is: we have made mistakes with the death penalty and have killed innocent people. Not cool with me that our government kills innocent people. Certainly not the way a free society should act, IMO.

I also think that lawyers are taught the n-Guilty men doctrine, which pretty much states that it is better for guilty men to go free than innocent men to be imprisoned. Maybe some Warpath lawyers can confirm/deny this.

As for vengeance killing -- if I witnessed somebody commit serious crimes against my family or loved ones, I might become enraged and kill them out of vengeance and I don't think I would be wrong for doing it -- or anyone else for that matter.

Just my $0.02

In any case, I saw an article about this guy before. Firing squad has been eliminated as a means for execution in the state of Utah. However, this guy and a few others had requested it before its elimination, and so they were "grandfathered" in. I've got to say, I like his style.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

I'll back you up here. I don't support the death penalty either, but when the circumstances are right, I support vengeance killing.

My basic point of view is: we have made mistakes with the death penalty and have killed innocent people. Not cool with me that our government kills innocent people. Certainly not the way a free society should act, IMO.

I also think that lawyers are taught the n-Guilty men doctrine, which pretty much states that it is better for guilty men to go free than innocent men to be imprisoned. Maybe some Warpath lawyers can confirm/deny this.

As for vengeance killing -- if I witnessed somebody commit serious crimes against my family or loved ones, I might become enraged and kill them out of vengeance and I don't think I would be wrong for doing it -- or anyone else for that matter.

Just my $0.02

In any case, I saw an article about this guy before. Firing squad has been eliminated as a means for execution in the state of Utah. However, this guy and a few others had requested it before its elimination, and so they were "grandfathered" in. I've got to say, I like his style.

Not many people are convicted in todays world without DNA evidence to convict them. I say when we are 100% sure we have the right person give them one appeal then death.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Not many people are convicted in todays world without DNA evidence to convict them. I say when we are 100% sure we have the right person give them one appeal then death.

Dna gets screwed up all the time,the lab here in houston has fucked up so many cases its unreal.Also I watched a show the iother night and part of it was about some woman who had 4 kids and none of them matched her dna.So its pretty damn hard to be 100% sure.As far as the death penalty is concerned,I dont care if they keep it or do away with it

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Lotus

A firing squad is abnormal as a method of execution. They only used it because he requested it.

We as a country need to wake up and abolish the death penalty. It is an expensive waste.

Note:
1) contrary to popular belief, the death penalty is more expensive. It costs about $750,000 to keep someone in maximum security for life, and maximum security protects society by keeping the murderer locked up. However, because of legal appeals, each death penalty case costs $3-4 million. So, for example, a recent study showed that Florida could save $51 million a year by abolishing the death penalty. The old argument that "I'm not gonna pay to keep a murderer alive" is financial nonsense. This is a big reason why New Jersey abolished the death penalty last year.

2) numerous studies have shown that the death penalty does not deter crime. Almost all of the states with the highest murder rates have the death penalty. Almost all of the states with the lowest murder rates do not have the death penalty.

While I don't disagree with you on your main point I would say your reasoning is the type of reasoning that will never ever result in the death penalty being really abolished.

1) As far as I know there isn't a large contingent of death penalty advocates who are for it simply because they think it's cheaper. Mostly because that is blatantly immoral. They're for it because they think the killers deserve it. A cost argument is completely lost on them.

2) Here you have presented a statistical fallacy. Or more accurately been presented a statistical fallacy that you then bought hook line and sinker. Most of these studies are woeful. They are conducted by biased organizations and done in a poorly devised economical analysis. Basically the studies don't actually study whether the death penalty is a quality deterrent...they study whether the death penalty eliminates murder. Subtle distinction. For example...none of the studies I know of have adequately addressed whether Fla actually has less murder because of the death penalty or not. For all we know the death penalty in Fla does the best job in preventing murder but it simply isn't good enough to actually eliminate it. Maybe without the death penalty the murder rate would sky rocket to crazy levels.

I would guess you and I would agree that on the face of it I can't see how the death penalty actually deters murder. It seems like basic common sense to me that if you are the type that is going to kill someone in a manner "deserving" of the death penalty then the threat of the death penalty is probably moot.

The best argument in my mind is that killing people for anything is just wrong. It is what we're trying to punish. Seems damn hypocritical and damn ironic to punish someone by doing to them what they did to somebody.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

While I don't disagree with you on your main point I would say your reasoning is the type of reasoning that will never ever result in the death penalty being really abolished.

1) As far as I know there isn't a large contingent of death penalty advocates who are for it simply because they think it's cheaper. Mostly because that is blatantly immoral. They're for it because they think the killers deserve it. A cost argument is completely lost on them.

2) Here you have presented a statistical fallacy. Or more accurately been presented a statistical fallacy that you then bought hook line and sinker. Most of these studies are woeful. They are conducted by biased organizations and done in a poorly devised economical analysis. Basically the studies don't actually study whether the death penalty is a quality deterrent...they study whether the death penalty eliminates murder. Subtle distinction. For example...none of the studies I know of have adequately addressed whether Fla actually has less murder because of the death penalty or not. For all we know the death penalty in Fla does the best job in preventing murder but it simply isn't good enough to actually eliminate it. Maybe without the death penalty the murder rate would sky rocket to crazy levels.

I would guess you and I would agree that on the face of it I can't see how the death penalty actually deters murder. It seems like basic common sense to me that if you are the type that is going to kill someone in a manner "deserving" of the death penalty then the threat of the death penalty is probably moot.

The best argument in my mind is that killing people for anything is just wrong. It is what we're trying to punish. Seems damn hypocritical and damn ironic to punish someone by doing to them what they did to somebody.

Pretty much what it boils down to for me.

Killing is wrong, end of story. There shouldn't be any exceptions.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Pretty much what it boils down to for me.

Killing is wrong, end of story. There shouldn't be any exceptions.

God killed people in the Bible. So is God wrong?

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

God killed people in the Bible. So is God wrong?

LOL, yep.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Pretty much what it boils down to for me.

Killing is wrong, end of story. There shouldn't be any exceptions.

I don't agree. And I don't see it as hypocritical, there's a distinction.

Someone who murders in cold blood took the life of another, thereby taking that person's right to life. It follows that they themselves are now no longer deserving of maintaining their own right to life. They forfeited that right the moment they snuffed out the life of another.

All we're doing as a society is evening the score. I don't see that as murder at all. In my mind, killing is 100% justified in the case of convicted murderers. I could pull the trigger myself, I wouldn't lose one wink of sleep over taking out someone who murdered.