What Is Wrong With The Offense?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinnyfan

This post is way off base man. You are comparing hall of fame qb's to scrubs like dilfer, brunell, garcia etc........not even close. I don't think Irish is saying that they are losers because they didn't win the big one.

Could have fooled me. He said Dilfer won a Super Bowl. And he shouldn't be compared to a loser like Brunell who never has.

Dilfer was in the right place at the right time. Brunell did take the Jags to two AFC Championship games, apart from his lack of a Super Bowl he's a better QB than Dilfer and has had a better career.

But whatever, the argument gets old. Everything is Brunell's fault. Fine.

[irish]

Originally Posted by skinnyfan

This post is way off base man. You are comparing hall of fame qb's to scrubs like dilfer, brunell, garcia etc........not even close. I don't think Irish is saying that they are losers because they didn't win the big one.

Exactly Skinny. Throwing out names like garcia & couch implies loser qb's that have never won anything. Dilfer has shown he can win at least once in his career. Marino, FT, & Moon are HOFers, not losers, and have won lots of games but never the big one.

[irish]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Could have fooled me. He said Dilfer won a Super Bowl. And he shouldn't be compared to a loser like Brunell who never has.

Dilfer was in the right place at the right time. Brunell did take the Jags to two AFC Championship games, apart from his lack of a Super Bowl he's a better QB than Dilfer and has had a better career.

But whatever, the argument gets old. Everything is Brunell's fault. Fine.

As much as I cant believe I'm saying it, I dont think the problems are MB's fault. I think they are Gibbs' fault. He lets MB play, he does not let Al Saunders run the O inside the 35. I'm not sure what happened to Gibbs in his time off but for whatever reason, he does not have it. Mark my words, if the skins fizzle this year Gibbs is done because even he will recognize its not working.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

As much as I cant believe I'm saying it, I dont think the problems are MB's fault. I think they are Gibbs' fault. He lets MB play, he does not let Al Saunders run the O inside the 35. I'm not sure what happened to Gibbs in his time off but for whatever reason, he does not have it. Mark my words, if the skins fizzle this year Gibbs is done because even he will recognize its not working.

So the problem is loyalty to Brunell?

[skinnyfan]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Could have fooled me. He said Dilfer won a Super Bowl. And he shouldn't be compared to a loser like Brunell who never has.

Dilfer was in the right place at the right time. Brunell did take the Jags to two AFC Championship games, apart from his lack of a Super Bowl he's a better QB than Dilfer and has had a better career.

But whatever, the argument gets old. Everything is Brunell's fault. Fine.

I didn't place the blame all on Brunell. I just wondered if anyone listened to the stats on sportstalk 980 yesterday, and Southpaw hooked me up. Somehow this thing got turned into comparing Brunell to qb's of old who were HOF's. I just wanted to make the point that Brunell's time has come and that may be attributed to our mediocre defense as well as Gibb's very conservative approach, and many many other things. I just think we are limited with Brunell. That is all.

[irish]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

So the problem is loyalty to Brunell?

Partly. Its also hiring people to do a job and not letting them do it. Its paying players before they play (instead of the other way around), its giving away draft picks. Its not any one of these by itself but taken in toto its created the current situation.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

Partly. Its also hiring people to do a job and not letting them do it. Its paying players before they play (instead of the other way around), its giving away draft picks. Its not any one of these by itself but taken in toto its created the current situation.

did you say toto? Man I loved Toto. Awesome 80s rock!

As for everything else I guess we'll agree to disagree

[irish]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

did you say toto? Man I loved Toto. Awesome 80s rock!

As for everything else I guess we'll agree to disagree

You never heard of the words 'in toto' for "in summary'?

I have no problems with disagreeing but I dont know what you could disagree with as everything I said is unfortunately true.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

You never heard of the words 'in toto' for "in summary'?

I have no problems with disagreeing but I dont know what you could disagree with as everything I said is unfortunately true.

No I guess I never have. As for the rest I think it's a huge leap to assume that he's not letting people do their job. I have no idea what you mean by paying people before they play. And as for the draft picks some say oh all we have is Rogers, McIntosh, Cooley, Taylor and Campbell. I say if using draft picks to get young players hitting their prime like Lloyd (wish he'd play more though. Where you at 85? Ocho Cinco!), Randle El and Portis then that's fine by me.

[BrunellMVP?]

offensive production is highly correlated to the opposing teams defensive coordinator's view of mark brunell. If he believes (as I do) that brunell is washed up, he will simply dare mark to beat him (which he can't)...and focuses on the running game (which can). If the D coordinator (for some reason unbeknownst to me) fancies brunell as a legit QB, he will respect his arm, which opens up the running game, which opens up the field for play action and letting moss be moss. i think D coordinators have seen enough on him that they will start daring him to beat them (not a good sign for the skins)...he may pull out a play or two, but he won't be consistent, sadly, neither will the skins...

[Mc2guy]

I think the issue we all have to come to terms with is that this team, with all of its raw talent and wealth of coaching knowledge, just isn't very good. Blame who you want but the reality is we are a middling team at best right now and the sooner we realize that the Superbowl is out of reach this year, the sooner we can start making some pragmatic decisions about the roster and the future of the team. I have been waiting 15 years for another championship, so one more season won't kill me.

If I were king of the Redskins world, here's my list:

First, I am sick and freaking tired of all the "Brunell is not the problem" talk. He isn't the ONLY problem...but he is certainly A problem. In addition to declining skill and a complete and total fear of getting hit, the guy simply doesn't have IT. When a QB doesn't have IT, your team is doomed to mediocrity. IT is all the intangibles that makes a winner. Brunell does not have IT. HE IS NOT GOOD PEOPLE...WATCH THE GAMES WITH YOUR EYES NOT YOUR HEARTS. Mark Brunell is a good person, but he is a lousy quarterback. End of discussion. Campbell will make mistakes, but better to do it now when the season is a long shot than to ruin another season having him learn how to play in the NFL.

Offensive line. I think they are actually better than they are being credited with. A lot of the "pressure" on the QB has been a result of bad QB play, not the line itself. Not all of it mind you, but a lot of it. Run blocking has been quite respectible and it what this line was made for. Let them do what they do well...run block. As in, DON'T EVER CONSIDER PASSING ON 3rd AND 1!!!

Skill players are all there and they are plenty good...just need to get the ball in their hands.

Defense, obviously we start with the front 4. We need to spend some money on a plugger, a Ted Washington/Grady Jackson type that can stop up the middle. Give Salavea and Griffin a few more breathers ala what philly is doing right now rotating their line in and out and the pass pressure would be better. Use Carter on passing downs only as he's susceptible to the run. Also, it looks like he needs some technique work as the last game film I watched, he wasn't even close to getting around the tackle despite his speed.

Linebackers. Rocky needs to step up and be the man. I would actually consider moving Archuletta up to the WLB spot as he's proven worthless in pass protection againt WR's...he'll match up better against TE's

Secondary...needs an overhaul. Bring in another solid #1 cover guy, put Rogers in the nickel spot. Bring in a decent coverage SS, and let Taylor roam. We don't need more hitters (Something I think GWilliams is overly infatuated with), we need guys that can cover and tackle. We make slow receivers look like greased pigs right now, we can't hold onto anyone. I've never seen so many broken tackles and that include HS.

Special Teams. Frost is okay, not really a sore spot right now...place kicker on the other hand. Raise your hand if you didn't see this debacle coming. We need to lure a quality young (younger than 30) kicker away from a small market team with some cash and nip this issue in the bud.

Okay rant off, there's my list. Have at it.

[REDSKIN1]

Do you work for the Redskins in the front office? Or are you Joe Gibbs, trying to trick everyone to think that you are just a fan. Man, I drank the kool aid too. But you are bathing in it. lol

I think that Mark is not washed up. However I do think that JC would be a up grade to the QB position. He's more mobile, he's got a better arm, and more up side, hopefully. Mark is at the point in his career, where his body can't hold up week in and week out. I think he would be a very good back up QB. And if he would have to enter the game he would be in pro bowl form. Because his body would not have been subject to the weekly grind of a starting QB.

Isn't it about time for Jason Campbell?

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I find it puzzling you say that, when the problem in Dallas is clearly the offensive line.

Brunell and Bledsoe are similar in that if you give them time, they can get the job done. If you let them get hit down after down their effectiveness is drastically reduced.

I was amazed that Dallas didn't do more to beef up their OL during the offseason.

Pulling the QB is always the magic solution the media and the fans want and it's always the first card that is pulled when an offense struggles. Rarely is it the right move. Are the media and the fans smarter than Parcells and Gibbs? Do I even need to answer that?

[irish]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

No I guess I never have. As for the rest I think it's a huge leap to assume that he's not letting people do their job. I have no idea what you mean by paying people before they play. And as for the draft picks some say oh all we have is Rogers, McIntosh, Cooley, Taylor and Campbell. I say if using draft picks to get young players hitting their prime like Lloyd (wish he'd play more though. Where you at 85? Ocho Cinco!), Randle El and Portis then that's fine by me.

Gibbs himself admitted in yesterdays presser that when the O gets to the opponents 35 he starts getting involved in the playcalling and talks to saunders. That could explain some of the confusion when the O got near the 35 on Sunday. Also the coach brought in last year to recommend what plays to challenge was constantly over-ruled or ignored by Gibbs (according to media sources I've heard)

This team gives players big contracts before they have ever done anything for the team. They always need players to play up to their contract instead of finding players that outplay their contract.

The drafted players have been ok (St has been very good). As for Campbell I dont know how anyone could tell if he has been good or not since he does not play and in addition we spent 3 picks to get him.

Portis was worth giving the picks away for (I guess) but somehow denver can draft portis type RBs and not have to pay them a ton of $ and mortgage the future in the process. The other players mentioned are good but I'm just not sure they are worth what was given.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by REDSKIN1

Do you work for the Redskins in the front office? Or are you Joe Gibbs, trying to trick everyone to think that you are just a fan. Man, I drank the kool aid too. But you are bathing in it. lol

I think that Mark is not washed up. However I do think that JC would be a up grade to the QB position. He's more mobile, he's got a better arm, and more up side, hopefully. Mark is at the point in his career, where his body can't hold up week in and week out. I think he would be a very good back up QB. And if he would have to enter the game he would be in pro bowl form. Because his body would not have been subject to the weekly grind of a starting QB.

Isn't it about time for Jason Campbell?

So you think JC would be an upgrade. Based on what? What little we've seen in a few preseason games? Damn, you must be a scout or something to know that he would be in "Pro Bowl form" if he played.

Please spare me with your armchair knowledge. JC an instant Pro Bowler? Don't make me laugh. Everyone is a freaking talent scout nowadays. Please.

I guess our coaching staff is just holding this Pro Bowler in waiting back. I guess they just don't understand talent otherwise why would this incrediblely talented QB not be in the lineup if he is indeed ready for prime time and ready for the Pro Bowl.

Your thoughts on JC are based totally on speculation and what you think, vs. what the coaches know.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by irish

Gibbs himself admitted in yesterdays presser that when the O gets to the opponents 35 he starts getting involved in the playcalling and talks to saunders. That could explain some of the confusion when the O got near the 35 on Sunday. Also the coach brought in last year to recommend what plays to challenge was constantly over-ruled or ignored by Gibbs (according to media sources I've heard)

This team gives players big contracts before they have ever done anything for the team. They always need players to play up to their contract instead of finding players that outplay their contract.

The drafted players have been ok (St has been very good). As for Campbell I dont know how anyone could tell if he has been good or not since he does not play and in addition we spent 3 picks to get him.

Portis was worth giving the picks away for (I guess) but somehow denver can draft portis type RBs and not have to pay them a ton of $ and mortgage the future in the process. The other players mentioned are good but I'm just not sure they are worth what was given.

From the day Saunders joined he knew that Gibbs would be involved. He has to be and should be. That doesn't mean he's not letting Saunders do his job. I'm not going to touch the play before you pay argument because I really don't understand what your point is there. Campbell is an unknown, but if you choose to look at a positive (which apparently almost no one here does) is that in 2007 we'll have a starting QB who has had the benefit of learning at the NFL level for two years as opposed to a rookie thrown into the fire.

Maybe I'll start a thread on the myth of the Denver running back. Portis has more than proven he's not a Denver system back and is far better than anything they have there.