Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Dolphins)

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I wouldn't say I've "been through Norv" because I was more apathetic to the Redskins than die-hard in that era.

I'm going to ignore your pleas and bring up Gibbs 2.0 anyway.

In all fairness Tripp, you weren't apathetic, you were a toddler. I was is in high school at the time. A mess indeed.

EDIT: by "a mess indeed" I meant the Norv era, not me, lol. Although comparatively, Norv looks pretty darn good compared to the last several years.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GMScud

In all fairness Tripp, you weren't apathetic, you were a toddler. I was is in high school at the time. A mess indeed.

I was both.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I agreed with the MS hire. I'm not calling for his head....yet. If we're in the same boat this time next year and no significant philisophical changes are made then yes I'll be screaming for him to be gone too.

Agree we need consistency, but we don't need to be consistently bad. The reason the QBs you mention above are successful is because they're damn good QBs, not because of their "systems". The HC's of their teams have been intelligent in the way they scheme around their talents. Any of these guys would be successful in any system. We don't have a franchise QB and there's no guarantee we'll get one this off-season.

If you've got a fridge full of chicken and a pantry full of noodles, you don't make steak & potatoes....you make chicken soup.

Totally agree with you. But let me aske you then will any talented QB like Luck if the team was able to even reach to get him play well in this system next year or is there more fundamental changes across the board needed? or will MS/KS have to look for a cookie cutter QB for their system because not just any QB will work in their system? Clearly they can't just plug in any QB as we've seen Grossman and Beck are not working out and McNabb failed in the system also. You could argue that Grossman/Beck are just bad QB's, and McNabb was unwilling to change, but is it something else? I think you eluded to it... the coaching staff is not designing plays around the talents of the QB under center. I think we all know this.

So what has to change if we are in the same position next year at this time? KS fired? MS fired?

Listening to the radio today an ex player for Seattle was asked if this is the same system he played against when he played MS's Bronco's and the ex player said no. Basically he said the players are not playing like a MS team, mentioned the OL not blocking well and not seeing much cut blocking that MS likes to use. Which made me wonder..... is the OL coach not coaching like the OL coach did while MS was in Denver? If I recall our OL coach was not doing very well in San Fran either.... he probably was going to get fired.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I've gathered from this crowdsourcing exercise that the prevailing opinion on Shanahan is that two years of failure isn't enough evidence to overturn the decision to bring him on as head coach + personnel guy.

I haven't heard anyone defend the Redskins as being on the right track.

So basically this is the coaching equivalent of the minutes during a challenge in the NFL where everyone is pretty certain the call on the field wasn't right, but we have to determine whether or not the visual evidence is indisputable. I propose that indisputable evidence is not necessary to make the best possible decision for the game going forward. I also realize I am the minority opinion on that one.

I'm not going to lie, I'm not going to make the argument because debating you can be quite frankly exhausting and a fruitless exercise. You can make strong points, but I'm just not interested, not now at least, in the next 10 pages here being a 15 paragraph per post back and forth between two people. I'd rather just wait and see what happens.

All that said, I don't think you let Shanahan go but I could see other coaching moves, including Kyle. What happens now in Houston could have a major impact on our staff next year

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm not going to lie, I'm not going to make the argument because debating you can be quite frankly exhausting and a fruitless exercise. You can make strong points, but I'm just not interested, not now at least, in the next 10 pages here being a 15 paragraph per post back and forth between two people. I'd rather just wait and see what happens.

All that said, I don't think you let Shanahan go but I could see other coaching moves, including Kyle. What happens now in Houston could have a major impact on our staff next year

Yeah, I can be an ass like that. Though, I like to flatter myself and think that the reason I can write so much is because at rare times, I can be right and you can be wrong.

I'm still looking forward to next year, all things considered.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I've gathered from this crowdsourcing exercise that the prevailing opinion on Shanahan is that two years of failure isn't enough evidence to overturn the decision to bring him on as head coach + personnel guy.

I haven't heard anyone defend the Redskins as being on the right track.

So basically this is the coaching equivalent of the minutes during a challenge in the NFL where everyone is pretty certain the call on the field wasn't right, but we have to determine whether or not the visual evidence is indisputable. I propose that indisputable evidence is not necessary to make the best possible decision for the game going forward. I also realize I am the minority opinion on that one.

Well its kinda difficult to do, but it can be done. They now have several RB's who should be able to get the job done as long as they can stay healthy, A LT who is doing a pretty good job in only is 2nd year, Hankerson seems promising, the DL is a lot better then last yr, we actually have a pass rush now, the LB core seems a lot better. Now injuries aside we definitly need quality backups, beef up our DB/CB position, definitly need a FS, and a QB.

It's hard to notice any improvement when most of your starters are injured. The bigger question is why the injuries? everyone trying to do too much? freak accidents? lack of prepardness? because we just can't expect all these injures every year.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Totally agree with you. But let me aske you then will any talented QB like Luck if the team was able to even reach to get him play well in this system next year or is there more fundamental changes across the board needed?

I think Luck & RG3 would succeed. I haven't done a bunch of checking into the other QBs coming out so I can't give an informed opinion on them. I don't like the KS system, just take a look at his time in HOU vs. what they're doing now offensively, due to a committment to the run game. Keep in mind A. Johnson has been injured this year too. As others have mentioned, KS can draw up route combos etc., but his playcalling, team specific gameplanning, and certainly emphasis on the run are questionable at best.

So what has to change if we are in the same position next year at this time? KS fired? MS fired?

Whole staff gone. Bring in SS33 as team president, I'll save Snyder a ton of money and wouldn't do any worse for sure.

Listening to the radio today an ex player for Seattle was asked if this is the same system he played against when he played MS's Bronco's and the ex player said no. Basically he said the players are not playing like a MS team, mentioned the OL not blocking well and not seeing much cut blocking that MS likes to use. Which made me wonder..... is the OL coach not coaching like the OL coach did while MS was in Denver? If I recall our OL coach was not doing very well in San Fran either.... he probably was going to get fired.

Exactly right, we aren't running MS's system, KS is in control of the offense, just look at our run/pass numbers. I saw a couple of cuts early in the season and Bowen mentioned that cutting was a big part of the scheme....but I haven't seen much cutting which is a staple of the ZBS. Again this all falls on MS, if the system isn't effective or being run the way he wants, it's his responsibility to "coach up" the coaches or make changes.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by GMScud

In all fairness Tripp, you weren't apathetic, you were a toddler. I was is in high school at the time. A mess indeed.

EDIT: by "a mess indeed" I meant the Norv era, not me, lol. Although comparatively, Norv looks pretty darn good compared to the last several years.

LOL, how I remember fans calling for Norv's head. He just couldn't get over the hump. Still can't but at this point I'd take a HC that can get my team into the play offs on a regular basis vs. not making the play offs because atleast the team has a winning record. lol. but I do remember hating Norv. and it seemed he called the same damn play over and over.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I've gathered from this crowdsourcing exercise that the prevailing opinion on Shanahan is that two years of failure isn't enough evidence to overturn the decision to bring him on as head coach + personnel guy.

I haven't heard anyone defend the Redskins as being on the right track.

So basically this is the coaching equivalent of the minutes during a challenge in the NFL where everyone is pretty certain the call on the field wasn't right, but we have to determine whether or not the visual evidence is indisputable. I propose that indisputable evidence is not necessary to make the best possible decision for the game going forward. I also realize I am the minority opinion on that one.

Yes, it is inconclusive about what the next year of Shanahan is going to be like.
But your analogy does not hold. Look at Oakland in 2009. They were horrible. Bad QB, lack of talent everywhere. But the reputed nut Al Davis pulled that team out of being complete ass the next year. Until we see what happens next season, no one knows.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

All that said, I don't think you let Shanahan go but I could see other coaching moves, including Kyle. What happens now in Houston could have a major impact on our staff next year

Why do you say this? are you refering to coaches that might be available? or players that might be available? I guess your refering to the HC getting canned and MS trying to bring him here? but Houston is doing so well.... aren't they?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Why do you say this? are you refering to coaches that might be available? or players that might be available? I guess your refering to the HC getting canned and MS trying to bring him here? but Houston is doing so well.... aren't they?

I probably shouldn't speak for SS, but I think he's referring to Houston's success on offense with a committment to the run game being a potential indicment of KS's system/abilities.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Exactly right, we aren't running MS's system, KS is in control of the offense, just look at our run/pass numbers. I saw a couple of cuts early in the season and Bowen mentioned that cutting was a big part of the scheme....but I haven't seen much cutting which is a staple of the ZBS. Again this all falls on MS, if the system isn't effective or being run the way he wants, it's his responsibility to "coach up" the coaches or make changes.

I just don't think MS is doing much coaching period. Which is why we are not seeing the MS offensive staple. He might have wanted some run scheme's thrown into the mix but I'm guessing it's all KS.

I understand there needs to be a commitment to the run but really are the numbers really all that off? I think whats best is 50/50 run/pass but we tend to be around 60/40 pass/run which I don't think is really all that bad either. I think KS's issue with getting away from the run is it doesn't work once and he shifts to passes. Gibbs was run, run, pass, punt, then come back out and do it again because sooner or later the defense will tire out and by the 4th quarter big runs will be available. KS seems to get frustrated when the OL does not block for the run so he turns to the pass.

[skinsfaninok]

I'm not a fan of KS at all in fact I wish he would be gone asap but that's not happening

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Why do you say this? are you refering to coaches that might be available? or players that might be available? I guess your refering to the HC getting canned and MS trying to bring him here? but Houston is doing so well.... aren't they?

Well let me preface by saying I'm not a huge Schaub fan, but if the Texans now falter with him out and miss the playoffs then Kubiak and co are likely gone. So yeah you're going to have coaches available that could shake up this staff. Not least of which is Rick Dennison.

[SBXVII]

So I guess we should hope for the Texans to start losing in order to get some position coaches here replaced. Lol.

My main concern is OL coach and MS getting the right coach in for his system. I really wish their old OL coach From Denver who went to the Texans could be healthy and work out their differences and be brought in.