Around the Nfl week 5

[JoeRedskin]

I stopped watching at the half and thought "Wow ... Vick really sucks."

What did he do in the fourth that turned it around?

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I stopped watching at the half and thought "Wow ... Vick really sucks."



What did he do in the fourth that turned it around?

Made a couple plays with his feet. Scrambled around and tossed one deep, about a 30 yard run rite down their gut. Appeared rather fast on the run. He definitely saved their asses in the fourth.
Edit: had me thinking about what Griff is capable of. However I quickly put that thought to rest for my sanity's sake.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Made a couple plays with his feet. Scrambled around and tossed one deep, about a 30 yard run rite down their gut. Appeared rather fast on the run. He definitely saved their asses in the fourth.
Edit: had me thinking about what Griff is capable of. However I quickly put that thought to rest for my sanity's sake.

It's funny you should say that. When I was watching his sucky first half - scrambling around, taking sacks, making inaccurate throws, failing to take what the defense was giving, etc., I thought "Man, he looks just like Griffin." Then they flashed his horrible accuracy rating and his sack percentage (highest of any QB with 1000 snaps) and I thought "Yup - exactly like Griffin." (Maybe not the accuracy part).

So, yeah, Vick and Griffin have a lot of comparables both from the positive and negative aspect. Even in his prime, I thought it would be impossible to build a regular winner around Vick b/c - although undeniable - his talent was so unique and his style so reckless that, in any offense designed for him to be successful, the rest of the team was screwed if he went down. That was pretty much (except the comeback year in Philly) the story of his career and is why - IMHO - the long term success of QB's like Vick and RGIII is so limited.

KC is not a good QB. BUT, you can plug any number of not-RGIII's or Michael Vick's into Jay's system and have the same or better success. With this offense, the rest of the team can develop consistency and good "football anticipation" (i.e. knowing how plays work and what your teammates are going to do so that you can focus on the D or the play's second level) until we find a QB who won't throw it to the other team at critical moments.

I am on the fence about Gruden - not convinced he or his system makes players "better." At the same time, his system is consistent with so many others out there such that, if a switch is eventually made, it will hopefully not require the "burn it to the ground" approach that Kelly felt necessary in Philly.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

KC is not a good QB. BUT, you can plug any number of not-RGIII's or Michael Vick's into Jay's system and have the same or better success. With this offense, the rest of the team can develop consistency and good "football anticipation" (i.e. knowing how plays work and what your teammates are going to do so that you can focus on the D or the play's second level) until we find a QB who won't throw it to the other team at critical moments.

Kirk managing a clock-eating 90-yard 4th qtr drive to beat Philly and a long drive with less than 45 seconds left to send the Atlanta game into OT in back-to-back weeks isn't good enough for you? He is a developing QB and you seem to expect him to play like John Elway on a weekly basis. That's not realistic or fair, IMO.

Jay Gruden says Kirk is getting better and I'll take his word for it. In due time, we'll find out if he's a keeper but I think it's still too soon to judge.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Kirk managing a clock-eating 90-yard 4th qtr drive to beat Philly and a long drive with less than 45 seconds left to send the Atlanta game into OT in back-to-back weeks isn't good enough for you? He is a developing QB and you seem to expect him to play like John Elway on a weekly basis. That's not realistic or fair, IMO.

Jay Gruden says Kirk is getting better and I'll take his word for it. In due time, we'll find out if he's a keeper but I think it's still too soon to judge.

I would like to see him improve as the season goes on, not see so much up and down play. It's what I expected but I would like to see the uneven play sort of even out. Hopefully he gets Reed and Jackson back at some point.

I would also like to see KC get a full off season as the unquestioned starter so he gets all those reps. We may not see the real improvement until next year. But we MUST draft a QB next year. Maybe someone in the 3rd or 4h round.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Kirk managing a clock-eating 90-yard 4th qtr drive to beat Philly and a long drive with less than 45 seconds left to send the Atlanta game into OT in back-to-back weeks isn't good enough for you? He is a developing QB and you seem to expect him to play like John Elway on a weekly basis. That's not realistic or fair, IMO.

Jay Gruden says Kirk is getting better and I'll take his word for it. In due time, we'll find out if he's a keeper but I think it's still too soon to judge.

So let me rephrase ... "Kirk is not a good QB now." Yes, the drives were impressive. Yay Kirk! But, for example, the 4th Q drive in Atlanta wen for naught on a ball that should never have left his hand. Will he improve? I hope so. However, if this is as good as it gets, he tops out as the second coming of Rex Grossman.

I am not expecting him to play like Elway "on a weekly basis." I just want better, consistent play and a showing that his flaws are improving. He still has problems with ball placement - his accuracy not good and, at times, really bad. He still makes bad decisions ... at times really bad. Recognizing these flaws and seeing the need for improvement is perfectly "realistic and fair."

I am neither a KC hater or fan. I just want the Skins to win. Objectively speaking, to do that consistently, I firmly believe we need better play from the QB position. Right now, Kirk is doing enough to win some and lose some. If he improves, great. However, my concern is that the mistakes he is making are the same mistakes he has always made.

Not saying we should ditch him tomorrow, just saying he needs to improve. A lot.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I stopped watching at the half and thought "Wow ... Vick really sucks."

What did he do in the fourth that turned it around?

He had 2 drives that were full of highlight reel plays. Had a long td (maybe 40 yards in the air followed by a good run), and then on the winning drive he converted 3 3rd downs (I think a 6yd pass, a 10 yard pass and a 25 yard through the center of the defense scramble. Then had a pass to the 1/2 yd line with 5 seconds to go, and had a timeout left because after his 25 yd scramble he had the presence of mind to get a quick formation and spike rather than burn a timeout. I'm not a fan of his, but you watch those drives, after the offense had 10 yards in the 2nd half to put together those two scoring drives, 1 bomb, 1 long drive with time running out, was damn impressive.