The Official Warpath Sign Tim Rattay and Cut Todd Collins Thread

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

So you're looking at a number on the roster sheet, his date of birth. And you're not considering the fact that:

1) Gibbs loves veterans.
2) Saunders loves Collins.
3) They're keeping Collins on board when they could have cut him to save $1.2 million in space.
4) The coaches might have learned something this past season; that changing too much on a team (whether personnel or scheme) disrupts continuity.
5) Collins has barely played in the last 10 years and has taken zero hits. It's not like he's a beat up 37 like Brunell is.

Seems like a pretty flimsy argument: "he'll be 37, there aren't many 37 yo QBs in the league."

I agree that its not a foregone conclusion that he will not be back in 2008, but unless something really unexpected happens in 2007, I can say that it would not be a smart move to bring him back. There are better QBs to be had (like Rattay for example).

At 37, Collins body will still heal slowly from this hits he will take, that won't be any different than the way Brunell would heal slowly. Brunell healthy is an asset. We don't know exactly what Collins healthy is exactly, but its more than reasonable to assume that it isn't much.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I agree that its not a foregone conclusion that he will not be back in 2008, but unless something really unexpected happens in 2007, I can say that it would not be a smart move to bring him back. There are better QBs to be had (like Rattay for example).

At 37, Collins body will still heal slowly from this hits he will take, that won't be any different than the way Brunell would heal slowly. Brunell healthy is an asset. We don't know exactly what Collins healthy is exactly, but its more than reasonable to assume that it isn't much.

The bolded part makes NO SENSE at all. Is your name Al Saunders? Who cares what WE know as fans? I think you're a smart guy GTripp, but honestly, I think I'll put a little more faith in the opinion of Al Saunders.

We don't know squat about Collins because we haven't seen him play. But Saunders sees him every day in practice and in meetings.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The bolded part makes NO SENSE at all. Is your name Al Saunders? Who cares what WE know as fans? I think you're a smart guy GTripp, but honestly, I think I'll put a little more faith in the opinion of Al Saunders.

We don't know squat about Collins because we haven't seen him play. But Saunders sees him every day in practice and in meetings.

Saunders also thought that he had never seen a receiver with the kind of talent Brandon Lloyd had. Boy that worked out wonderful for us.

There's plenty of reasons he might like Todd Collins. Maybe he's just comfortable with him. We don't know why Saunders wants Collins around.

We do know that a coach liking a player as a backup is a very poor reason to expect anything from the player on the field.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Saunders also thought that he had never seen a receiver with the kind of talent Brandon Lloyd had. Boy that worked out wonderful for us.

There's plenty of reasons he might like Todd Collins. Maybe he's just comfortable with him. We don't know why Saunders wants Collins around.

We do know that a coach liking a player as a backup is a very poor reason to expect anything from the player on the field.

So essentially, because Saunders was wrong on Brandon Lloyd (a player he had never coached before), you see that as reason to discredit his judgment on Todd Collins (a player he has coached for years and years)??

Huh??

Saunders has more intelligence and knowledge on Todd Collins than anyone else in the NFL. Admittedly, the Skins were retarded on the Brandon Lloyd move, Saunders included. But if you're saying we can't trust Al Saunders regarding a player he's been around for years and years, then aren't you really saying Saunders' judgment on these matters is totally worthless?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

So essentially, because Saunders was wrong on Brandon Lloyd (a player he had never coached before), you see that as reason to discredit his judgment on Todd Collins (a player he has coached for years and years)??

Huh??

Saunders has more intelligence and knowledge on Todd Collins than anyone else in the NFL. Admittedly, the Skins were retarded on the Brandon Lloyd move, Saunders included. But if you're saying we can't trust Al Saunders regarding a player he's been around for years and years, then aren't you really saying Saunders' judgment on these matters is totally worthless?

I'm saying that because Saunders likes him is not a good reason to have expectations for him. Every coach has his favorites. That doesn't make them good players necessarily, just overvalued by the team that coach is on.

Collins could be good, but the chances that he's a hidden talent at this point in his career are...well, not very high.

The most logical explination is that he (Saunders) just likes Collins and wants to see him succeed as opposed to another player, such as Rattay. He's not stupid or anything, or willing to sacrifice the betterment of the team for Todd Collins' game, but if Al Saunders won't get him PT, who will?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'm saying that because Saunders likes him is not a good reason to have expectations for him. Every coach has his favorites. That doesn't make them good players necessarily, just overvalued by the team that coach is on.

Collins could be good, but the chances that he's a hidden talent at this point in his career are...well, not very high.

The most logical explination is that he (Saunders) just likes Collins and wants to see him succeed as opposed to another player, such as Rattay. He's not stupid or anything, or willing to sacrifice the betterment of the team for Todd Collins' game, but if Al Saunders won't get him PT, who will?

OK first off, is that your whole thing here? Trying to find hidden talent? I guess Gruden just missed the hidden talent that might be there, after all, he let him go, then signed Jeff Garcia, and traded for Jake Plummer.

San Fran was so enamored with that talent that they spent their #1 pick on Alex Smith.

The chances of Tim Rattay being a hidden talent are about the same as Todd Collins, IMO. Nill.

And I strongly disagree with the bolded part. Saunders doesn't just like Collins. Saunders' job is to run a good offense. He's comfortable that while Collins lacks talent, he can come in and manage a game well enough to not screw up. He's no long term answer, but he's a solid safety net when your #1 option goes down. Even coaches like to have insurance, that's what Collins is. Not the son Saunders wished he had.

You and I seem to be talking past each other an awful lot here. So let's just finally get down to the thing that will kill this ridiculous idea:

How do you propose to fit Rattay under our cap in 2007? Are you assuming we'll get him for vet min?